MSSA decides the Mexican fiasco is just silly 
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Gavin Mannion
September 11, 2013 at 12:30 pm

Colin Webster

So we posted two interesting articles yesterday (here and here) regarding the recent South African vs. Mexico DOTA 2 match. Before we posted the first article in the morning we contacted the MSSA for an official comment and were promised a press release regarding the issue.

Well that Press Release never arrived, which is no real surprise, and we started doing some of our own investigation.

Now admittedly we had a limited time to do this research so in around an hour we only managed to find out that the IeSF is possibly not the best international eSports organisation to affiliate with as most of their partners appear to be stale or none existent, with all their world series tournaments being held in South Korea.

Then through this organisation they were pointed to the, apparently official, Mexican eSports organisation at www.esports.mx, which while better than our own local attempt http://mindsportsa.co.za/, is still far from looking like an official organisation. The last time it appeared to be active was in August last year. Ah but is it official?

The owner of the site, Agustín Cruz Lozano, states that he formed eSports Mexico in 2011 to respond to the needs of Mexican gamers. He is working to help the creation and continuity of eSports clubs in Mexico. At no point does he imply or state that this is a government backed organisation or an official entity of any kind.

Then we looked at the players and found that 2 of them appeared to not actually be Mexican which instantly makes this not a national side. Not only that but the Mexican DOTA 2 group has actively stated that only 1 member of the team is Mexican and that none of the team members are the top players in the country.

Now if I was in charge of the MSSA I would expect my team to have done more than an hour’s research in to setting up a crucial test match against a national team and maybe raising a few questions beforehand. When England play Bafana Bafana both teams need to provide their squad names before and and if asked they are required to provide proof that the players are in fact eligible for the team. I will guarantee this wasn’t done.

But no it seems the MSSA doesn’t actually care about whether the opposing team is official or not as long as our team has jumped through their multitude of hoops to make them feel important.

When approached by htxt.co.za about our article the esteemed president of the MSSA, Colin Webster, had this to say.

Dear Deon

A silly sensationalist article.

The MSSA asked the Mexican body to provide a team. The Mexican Federation provided a team. The two teams played. South Africa won!

There is no more to it than that!

Best regards

Colin

Gloves off

So our article showcasing that our national pride was disrespected, our team was ridiculed and the Mexican nation disgraced was just silly sensationalism?  Mexico doesn’t appear to have an eSports federation aligned to government, and the MSSA doesn’t like being questioned.

Previously when I’ve posted about the MSSA I always received emails or phone calls asking why I didn’t ask for their comment first. Now when we do ask for their comment we don’t get anything and then get mocked to other media.

Nice move MSSA. I personally have a lot of pride in our work and the gaming industry in South Africa and I for one have backed the idea of the MSSA on countless occasions both publicly and privately. But no more. The MSSA obviously doesn’t have the interest of gamers at heart and is not competent to run or help eSports locally.

We were in the process of affiliating a club with them to try and help gamers bypass the illogical red tape that is put in the way but that idea has now been shelved indefinitely. Maybe the next president of the MSSA will do a better job but don’t count on it since only affiliated members with double backing from multiple clubs can even be nominated for the role so don’t expect any changes anytime soon.

In closing we will obviously still cover the local eSports scene that MSSA officiates as well as other properly organised events. But as you have always known and maybe the MSSA is only now realising, we don’t just post the news they want people to hear. We actually have pride and integrity in what we do.

Next time you organise a test match, make sure the other team is official and ask for proof. It really isn’t that hard.

And for those who do care about the quality of gaming locally we are organising a rematch with Mexico. We are in contact with the top two DOTA 2 clans in the country, verified by a multitude of sources, and are going to pit them up against the top 2 DOTA 2 clans from South Africa. Energy who are currently leading the DGL league and one other which is still being debated…because research is required. On that note, this is not something we’d like to get into on a larger scale, and we’d prefer to leave this sort of thing to the professionals; people like the DGL and PolarFluke. We’re only doing this because there are wrongs that we feel need to be righted.

So stay tuned for that. It won’t be official but it will be good.

I'm cranky, arrogant and ever so amazingly annoying but when you get to know me you will also realise I'm honest and incredibly good at describing myself... now pass me that beer

  • That Tall Twit

    No comment! :P

    • Unavengedavo (aka. Frik)

      But with this comment you did in fact comment :O… Isn’t that a paradox or something?

      • Admiral Chief of Rivia

        Nailed it!

  • Sageville

    For MSSA to fix this they would need to just declare that the Official SA Team played and beat a DOTA 2 team that consisted of one confirmed Mexican and assorted Randoms.

    • Umar Final Fantasy 15 Hopeful

      They would first have to admit they are at fault

      • Sageville

        Can’t they just pull the usual face-saving SA political about-face….

        “Our statements were taken out of context”

        • Unavengedavo (aka. Frik)

          And if that doesn’t work… The race card or blame it on apartheid

  • Ultimo_Cleric N7

    Gavin, max respect man. Thanks for organising this. Cant wait for the rematch……well……the REAL MATCH.
    MSSA…….congrats on embarrassing SA again. great job.

  • Rock789

    Go LG! You guys rock and are clearly in the right… It’s amazing that, as soon as an organisation is ‘official’, the beaurocracy and red-tape seem to take over and everything that organisation stood for and wanted to accomplish then get splattered all over the floor… A crying shame, coz in the long-run, SA gaming is the real loser in all of this.

    Getting my ADSL installed tomorrow, which is perfect timing so I can watch this unofficial-yet-more-official-than-the-original match-up. Looking forward to it!

    • Admiral Chief of Rivia

      Nice!

  • DrunkGamer

    Thanks Gavin for protecting us from the internet

  • hairyknees

    WOOT! Mexico vs SA GOGOGOGO!

    • Admiral Chief of Rivia

      YEEEEEAH

  • RincemySniperKittEH0-O

    Did he call Gavin Deon? 0-O

    • http://www.twitter.com/WobblyOnion Exalted Overlord Geoffrey Tim

      “When approached by htxt.co.za about our article the esteemed president of the MSSA, Colin Webster, had this to say.”

      • Hammersteyn

        So he thought Gavin was called Deon?

        • Admiral Chief of Rivia

          No man, the guy from htxt :P

        • http://www.lazygamer.co Gavin Mannion

          lol no, the guy from HTXT is Deon.. we never got a response

          • Hammersteyn

            Silly me.

        • davegreenway
          • Hammersteyn

            Cheers :)

          • Sageville

            HARDEST SPOT-THE-DIFFERENCE EVA!

          • davegreenway

            Well in the first one he’d disappointed with the MSSA and in the second he’s disillusioned by the entire debacle :)

      • RincemySniperKittEH0-O

        Ahh, my bad. Paint fumes messing with my head.

  • http://lazygamer.net/ OVG Beyond your comprehension

    Why did the Mexican push his wife off the cliff?
    TEQUILA!!!

    • Admiral Chief of Rivia

      XD

    • Hammersteyn

      Bwahahahaha

    • Sageville

      We had a meeting, we’ve unanimously decided that you may not tell “Jokes” any more.

      • Admiral Chief of Rivia

        Say what now?

        • Sageville

          You wern’t invited

          • Admiral Chief of Rivia

            Then it couldn’t have been important :P

          • Sageville

            It was very important, the agenda was “WTF, Say no to Groaner OVG Jokes”.

            I have the minutes here:

            Sageville: WTF!
            Anonymous 1: No Wais!
            Sageville: Vote passed, motion carried.

          • Admiral Chief of Rivia

            I retract my comment, cuz of the official minutes. Minutes make teh meetingz and all

          • Hammersteyn

            Must’ve been a “hands on” meeting seeing how only two people were involved.

          • Admiral Chief of Rivia

            LOL

          • Sageville

            Hey!

            You weren’t complaining last night Mr Anonymous 1 !

          • Hammersteyn

            I would never partake in such a meeting where we suppress OVG. I do talk to myself though.

          • RincemySniperKittEH0-O

            Why wasn’t I invited! I should be the bloody chair! I have to listen to his cruddy jokes every weekend :(

          • Sageville

            Conflict of Interest Dood, sorry

    • RincemySniperKittEH0-O

      Le Sigh. I have to hear this EVERY month from him. And he giggles like it’s the first time it’s been said. Not because it’s funny, but because he likes the look of frustration on your face!

      • Alien Emperor Trevor

        I know that feeling. His I mean, not yours. It’s hilarious. :D

        • RincemySniperKittEH0-O

          Get back in your box, NOW!

        • Unavengedavo (aka. Frik)

          I have to agree!

        • Sageville

          Lol

  • Admiral Chief of Rivia

    Their response is as professional as their website:
    http://www.mindsportsa.co.za/

    • Sageville

      I’m still waiting for it to load the content….. or is it just a facebook and mweb link?

      • Hammersteyn

        That’s it nothing more.

        • Sageville

          They must be big in the chess scene

          • Admiral Chief of Rivia

            lol

      • Admiral Chief of Rivia

        What Deon said….so sad…

        • Hammersteyn

          I got a fright, thought he was addressing me…

          • Admiral Chief of Rivia

            XDXD

    • Hammersteyn

      I would respond with this.
      http://php.net/

      • Admiral Chief of Rivia

        HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

        • Hammersteyn

          LOL someone doesn’t like PHP

    • SaintsRowLee

      You call that a website? Hell, I have seen better looking Cindy Crawford fan sites when the internet was launched!

      • Admiral Chief of Rivia

        LOL, no, but they do

        • SaintsRowLee

          I would have given them *some* credit if that site at least redirected me to their facebook page…

          • Hammersteyn

            Hmmmmmmm how long to hack their site?

          • Alien Emperor Trevor

            To improve it?

          • Hammersteyn

            Exactly. Add some clips of previous tournaments. Player profiles. Upcoming events. Hell page3 from the Daily Sun will ensure it gets hits.

          • Admiral Chief of Rivia

            What is page3 from the Daily Sun? (too scared to google)

          • Hammersteyn

            Usally a topless “model”. I use the term lightly. I’m not sure if “Die Son” still sells in SA. But it’s basically a shitty tabloid newspaper that they copied from the UK.

          • Admiral Chief of Rivia

            Aye, thanks for the “warning”

          • SaintsRowLee

            How can a newspaper showing topless models be regarded as shitty? What is this world coming to?

          • Brady miaau

            Oh, but it is. It is.

          • SaintsRowLee

            But… but… topless models…

          • Hammersteyn

            Wait till you see the “models”.

          • Sageville

            Think Vetkoek Paleis meets Cape Fletz meets The School Bicycle

          • SaintsRowLee

            If I could I would…

          • Admiral Chief of Rivia

            DO EEEEET

          • SaintsRowLee

            Go the concept for you right here!

          • Admiral Chief of Rivia

            If you manage to hack and do that, you will have immediately gained entry, no trails needed!

          • Alien Emperor Trevor

            Unfortunately I can’t give that all the upvotes it deserves.

          • Brady miaau

            I thought someone already did.

            Ok, somebody had to say it.

          • Hammersteyn

            LOL looks that way no that you mention it.

          • Unavengedavo (aka. Frik)

            There is a link to their facebook page, does that count?

          • SaintsRowLee

            No.
            Here is a link: http://www.google.co.za
            Can I get a government grant?

          • Admiral Chief of Rivia

            XD

  • Jonah Cash

    Well played all the LG staff!!! How sad is this MSSA then??? How do our players even survive with idiots like that running things?? I would be seriously pissed off if I was one of the Saffers who played in this match!!

  • Admiral Chief of Rivia

    Sorry, but just where exactly does this Colin Webster dude come from? What is his credentials? How did he get into this all? Does he game? Does he drink beer?

    Please anyone, shed some light for me

    • HvR

      Looks like he comes from Mcdonalds most of the time.

    • HvR

      According to wikipedia they started as the official wargame (like starcraft or warcraft but with little soldier models that you build and paint yourself played on a table) and classic board game (like backgammon and checkers) organization.

      An then somewhere they help founded that other great sporting SA sporting institution SASCOC and then they got MWEB sponsorship and become the organizing body of eSports.

      Worst of all I think they actually get tax and/or lotto money.

      • Brady miaau

        So, I am not the only one to read the Wiki entry.

        Yes. MWEB. What do they say?

        • HvR

          Those 4 lines on wikipedia is the only information available on the MSSA.

    • neilhza

      Disclaimer: This is from distant memory, so there may be errors.

      He’s originally head of the South African Wargames Union (http://www.sawu.freeservers.com/), which claimed oversight of historical figure-based table-top wargaming. In most countries these are non-official hobbyist type bodies useful for organising tournaments and leagues (like BHGS in the UK http://www.bhgs.org.uk/). Uniquely to SA he got historical figure wargaming registered as a sport with the South African sports authorities (SASCOC) opening the door to national colours in tabletop wargames. Like all double-edged swords it also meant the political authorities’ rules applied to the make-up of a national team or who may compete and when. I remember furious online debates over whether unofficial club-based tournaments now required their permission to be run, and whether you were permitted to reveal your nationality when playing overseas unofficially, but I digress. SAWU expanded to cover board games (morabaraba, chequers, chess etc.) and historical figure wargamers became a tiny minority. It was subsequently renamed to Mind Sports South Africa (http://mindsportssa.freeservers.com/) and has expanded further to claim oversight of PC and console gaming. I don’t remember there ever being a different person as head of SAWU or MSSA, at least since the mid-90′s. I’m disappointed that LG’s constructive criticism over this Mexican issue hasn’t been taken on board, it would be to MSSA’s benefit.

    • neilhza

      I tried but it keeps getting deleted.

      • Admiral Chief of Rivia

        What keeps being deleted?

        • neilhza

          I have the light you were asking to be shed, posted it twice and it appears briefly before disappearing. Basically he’s headed SAWU since the 90′s (or earlier) which governed historical figure table-top wargaming before it became MSSA and expanded to board games, card games and now PC and console games, getting all these lovely hobbies brought under SASCOC’s iron rule.

          • Admiral Chief of Rivia

            Lagz won’t delete comments, unless REALLY hate speech/offensive.

            But thanks for the info.

            I’ve also noticed sometimes when I post on Disqus that it does not accept comment. But then its bad net connection….

        • neilhza

          The light I try to shed for you. Just disappears a short while after posting.

  • JincksLotus

    bwahahaha… for me the greatest winner with this article is the ” amateur hour” tag.

    • Admiral Chief of Rivia

      LOL, missed that one, thanks for giving me EXTRA lulz!

  • SaintsRowLee

    Hell, MSSA MUST be official. They have jacketses!

    • Hammersteyn

      And facebook and a website.

      • SaintsRowLee

        My amateur erotica site also has a facebook page, a blog (website) AND a twitter account. Can I get a government grant then?

      • Unavengedavo (aka. Frik)

        And a fancy acronym!

        • Hammersteyn

          And green and yellow. I thought it was BP’s homepage for a second.

          • SaintsRowLee

            Bee Pee,, we like to keep you moving

    • Lardus-Respect the beard

      And an Acronym!

  • HvR

    Very disappointing, Lazygamer actually tried to support MSSA as the official eSports body despite their obvious shortcomings and lack of spell checking skills.

    I now you get snubbed and insulted for your support because you didn’t want to publish incorrect facts.

    • Spathi

      This so much!

  • http://www.lazygamer.co Gavin Mannion

    We just received some new information about the MSSA… it gets worse…

    Article is being researched and will publish shortly

    • Sageville

      Dun, Dun, Duuuuuh!

    • Admiral Chief of Rivia

      O_O

    • HvR

      Worse??!!?? Only way this gets worse is if you make Colin Webster the locally Tuesday ION header.

      • Admiral Chief of Rivia

        NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

      • Lardus-Respect the beard

        Do NOT give them ideas!

      • Sageville

        Trying to scare us huh>?

        Well it frikken worked!

      • Weanerdog

        Downvote for the image

    • Spathi

      Just give us some time to rant and recover before publishing the next one!

      Also, great work Isabella Jones! Someone needs to uncover the incompetence of the MSSA or hopefully make them realize that esports is JUST as important as other sports and needs to be handled with the same amount of professionalism.

      • Alien Emperor Trevor

        lol @ Isabella

        • Spathi

          HEheh, I think it was Isabel only maybe?

          Yup…

          Fuck, she is dead! Never realized this.

          • Alien Emperor Trevor

            or Isobel, not sure either, and I’m too lazy to google it.

          • Alien Emperor Trevor

            A few years now, that woman was fearless & kicked arse. My mom always listened to her show on the radio, so I used to hear snippets.

  • Gustav Willem Diedericks

    There’s only one reason why the MSSA exists: when they screw up they can at least say it was official.

    • HvR

      Jip, that is keeping in line with standard South African Sport Organization policy.

  • Rags

    I once used to be a great supporter of MSSA and ran tournaments(Quake 3 & 4) for them through AGASA back in the day. I can’t recall the guy I worked through, Johan Somelongishsurname if I recall correctly. A great guy and a good understanding of building a sport on a sustainable level from the ground up. But I am more and more convinced gamers should be like golfers, represent themselves and screw the bureaucracy. I just have to look at all the ‘official’ organisations that are miss managed and bankrupt. Various provincial teams, Athletics SA, Basketball SA, etc etc are all screwed. And it is all just about fighting and the management abusing the sponsorship money flying first class while the athletes have to live from scraps.

    The only appealing thing of MSSA was to receive South African colours, but now they have demolished its worth. GG

    • Admiral Chief of Rivia

      “Gamers like golfers”

      Now that is a good idea!

      • Brady miaau

        Yes, did not see. GG, Good Golfer

        • Alien Emperor Trevor

          is a dead golfer? Oh, that’s not where it was going…

    • Admiral Chief of Rivia

      You sir, deserve an upvote for your awesome comment!

    • SaintsRowLee

      Agree with the @Admiral_Chief:disqus Why are people like you not running things?

      • HvR

        Because he will force us all to play games on WIndows 8 and change our passwords every 32 days.

        • Rags

          Pfft, Ill make you play Sims on a Mac.

      • Rags

        Thanks for the vote of confidence. But to turn gaming into a accredited sport is like herding cats. It cannot work in the way MSSA is doing it. I have been active in the Quake scene for years and we struggle to set a standard as to what maps, time limit, mod and network settings should be. This takes a fair bit of thought and consideration and thousand comment threads on esreality.com. A very good standard is usually the result of this long and hard process. Now imagine MSSA never being part of this discussion now not only have to decide on a standard game rules, but also which games are a ‘sport’.

        The IeSF traditionally does not give two hoots about FPS games, at heart it is a South Korean organisation with apparent government ties. Their core focus is on games like starcraft and traditional Korean games. So where does that leave FPS gamers for instance?

        I don’t know what the solution is. Gamers should focus on the games they enjoy, build and promote it, host their own tournaments and work their way to create a sustainable competitive environment. The underground fighting game scene is a good example of doing it right imo. It takes a load of hard work and sacrifice, and it usually goes without even a thank you. But it’s up to us the gamers to make it work.

        • HvR

          Usually helps if there is a single international entity that sets the rule and regulations but they typically need some “street cred” usually helps if they organize an annual world championship with a big prize pot.

          From there on they just publish the rules and it is up to the actual participants (be on regional provincial or national level) to organize themselves into a league to send their best players to internationals.

          I’ve seen this model work reasonably well for Magic and remote control racing.

          Although nice on paper I do not think the standard team sport model (official national teams with official government backing) is ever going to work for eSports.

          • Rags

            I agree to a certain extend. The problem is when these organisations can sometimes dictate things which is against the spirit of the game. A quick example is MSSA wanting us to do some Swiss tournament model for Quake. No one has ever heard of it apart from one or two who played some chess in their school years. Instead we wanted the traditional standard of double elimination brackets. People where upset about it and quickly lost faith in the tournament.

            When gamers themselves decide when they finally reach some sort of consensus(like the geth) it creates a much better environment.

            Competitive gaming has come a long way and usually it was us naive teenagers wanting to be the next fatality. Times have changed we are graduates and professionals, we understand how marketing and economics work, we are much more capable of self organisation and representation. Some may now lost interest or just don’t have the time, but there should still be enough fuel in the tank to make it home.

            And there are already some great local competitive communities doing it right, and I applaud them for it takes quite big balls to make it so. :) We must just remember we first need to learn to walk before we can run. Patience and continued support of those organisations/event managers/gamers are key. Then nothing can stop us, not even a obese reptilian figure in a green and gold suite.

            Namaste.

        • Admiral Chief of Rivia

          lulz @ herding cats

    • Robert Infy Hart

      Johann von Backstrom. He is the big boss @ Do Gaming. AGASA = Do Gaming League.

  • Lardus-Respect the beard

    Read the HTXT article – there was an update to it. Respect from them :P

  • Rudi de Lange

    Lazygamer, make that happen!
    Also, BvD as second team.
    Also, MMSA, please kick Colin.
    Also, Colin, disband please.

  • Desimis

    Bravado is currently sitting at second place in DGL. Energy at the top. Saw the stats like a day or two ago? Definitely worth using those two teams.

  • xeRa

    Not to mention the MSSA were using an outdated rule set for the qualifiers (rule set from dota 1 days that were around mostly because of the limitations of the warcraft 3 engine). Their reasoning simply being “because thats what the iesf uses”.

  • David Medina

    lazygamer.net rulz :D

  • David Medina

    lazygamer.net rulz :D

  • Mx Neo

    Thanks Gavin Mannion , we really appreciate your job and your time to keep trying , its a shame that all this request´s to the MSSA get’s to nothing what a disgusting response from their part.
    But also we are happy to hear that your effort is giving an opportunity to the mexican community to take part in something that could be great in the future.
    We really appreciate your dedication becase we see you put your heart in this … something to be proud.

    We’ll keep tuned and thanks again.

  • B4d R0b0t

    “I do not believe that the MSSA would deliberately defraud the eSports community”. That was a mistake, now you know.

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