Yesterday I posted up an incorrect accusation against one of our esteemed local members and have rightly been blasted for it, I am taking that post down to ensure that his name isn’t slighted by weird Google searches but please feel free to continue to insult me in this post instead.
I think what yesterday proved quite convincingly is that the local community really cares about the honesty and integrity of the gamers around them which is a great thing.
Unfortunately the truth of the matter is that we do have a large contingency of local pirates and cheats and some of them hold respected positions in the gaming community. This annoys a lot of people which was shown by the multitude of private emails and IM’s I received who, while telling me I was wrong, were also appreciative that this issue was getting some publicity.
The problem is catching these guys is virtually impossible and as such it is safer to simply shy away from the problem and pretend it isn’t happening.
Using my wife’s incredible qualities of 20/20 hindsight it appears that I should have followed that same advice and just ignored the accusations. However I prefer to face these things head on and this time I got slaughtered.
So to the person I incorrectly pointed a finger at please accept the sexy pirate I withheld from you yesterday and to the high profile cheats and pirates in the community… your time will come and maybe now would be a good time to change your ways before you lose everything you worked so hard to build. It really isn’t worth it just to save a couple of bucks.
Last Updated: November 13, 2009
evilredzombie
November 13, 2009 at 06:49
Well you must admit that for a journalist you did put your foot in it…What did Ra1nk1ng say?
I do agree.. the PS2, Xbox360, Wii and PSP community in SA is rotten with Pirates… Maybe run a competition.. spot the pirate and have megarom sponser prizes?
But good for you to do this post… how you guys kiss and make up
LazySAGamer
November 13, 2009 at 06:53
Well yes I am admitting that…
A competition is a good idea and is something that we have been mulling over internally without consultation with any distributors.
Reaver
November 13, 2009 at 06:49
Yo’ momma is so fat, whe she jumped for joy, she got stuck!
WitWolfyZA
November 13, 2009 at 06:59
arrrrrr shiver me timbers
Ruslan
November 13, 2009 at 08:20
Well, although Rainking got falsely accused the real pirates on the X360 know who they are and will eventually get the axe. Its just funny how they are so well entrenched in the community and extremely hypocritical when it comes to pirate topics. :whistle:
Hamsterjie za
November 13, 2009 at 08:21
Well personally im very happy that his not a pirate, and im sure he will be mature enough to brush this misunderstanding off. Keep the flag high for us Ra1nk1ng 🙂
bokka1
November 13, 2009 at 09:12
I have heard so many accusations of Xbox players that are involved with piracy the last few days that it is really shocking. Some of the names flying around has left me utterly speechless. I would love to see the sales figures of Xbox’s in SA for the last few days.
Darkling
November 13, 2009 at 09:17
Name and Shame ek se!
bokka1
November 13, 2009 at 09:48
It is only accusations and I have no proof.
People can do to their Xbox’s what they want to, but I hate it when they come here or on the forums and try to justify their actions. It is wrong end of story.
squirrely
November 13, 2009 at 10:11
What really got me was the fact that most of these names are all very anti-pirate on the forums.
LPsoldier ZA
November 13, 2009 at 10:19
I’m with Darkling…I’ve also heard of some names…and wasn’t surprised in the least…
Dit is om van te kots… :sick:
squirrely
November 13, 2009 at 10:46
so if you’re with him name them?
LPsoldier ZA
November 13, 2009 at 14:15
You first… 😉 :ninja:
sparrow
November 13, 2009 at 10:21
“It really isn’t worth it just to save a couple of bucks.”
You’re kidding, right? A couple of bucks? Really? I buy a 10 pack cake box of Verbatim DL DVDs for R250, and download R500 (and I’m being generous here) games for *FREE and burn them. The games would have cost R5000 when bought legit, so no, I didn’t “save a couple of bucks”, I saved R4750.
“But piracy takes revenue from the game developers and therefore they have less money to keep making quality games etc.” Oh, okay, I won’t pirate, I’ll just buy the games from the second hand market for cheap. Wait a minute, if I do that, the developer still does not get my sale! But the second hand market is not frowned upon anywhere. Why?
So piracy does as much harm to the “poor developers” (LOL) as the second hand market, except evil piracy doesn’t burn as much a whole in my pocket as the “legit” second hand market. I wonder which one I’ll choose?
And as for “Saves the damn pirates right, ha ha, your console got banned! Loser!”, refer to point one above, I have saved in excess of R30000 by not buying games, somehow I don’t think forking out R3500 for another console is that much of an issue. Must be some other definition for loser in the dictionary. And yes, it will be flashed again, so I can save another R30000. Arrgh :pirate:
sparrow
November 13, 2009 at 10:26
I won’t even get started on my PC piracy.
Kale
November 13, 2009 at 10:38
Well done you saved R4750 – get a job hippie. You did not save R4750 you stole R4750. Had you bought legit you would have considered your purchase and probably cleared the games you bought.
As for the second hand marked it offers no good thiefs like you an alternative to your thieving ways. You will probably find on average a game will be swapped 4 times in it’s life-time but 1 copy would have been bought thus in turn does go to the developer, also the people that buy second hand will have games they bought and trade them in. So there is our justification, and fact people who don’t chip their X-boxs will/do at some point buy originals.
What amazes me more is it’s plonkers like you that will complain about crime and the like in SA or moan about not having X-box Live or MS not caring about gamers yet you contribute nothing.
There is a definition for looser in the dictionary but you don’t need one, all you need is a mirror to look into.
sparrow
November 14, 2009 at 01:17
Wow, so many made up “facts” in one post.
First you make your own rules that make civil and criminal laws interchangeable. Copyright infringement is not theft, and will never be, for the simple fact (a real fact, mind you) that theft removes the *original* item from the owner. “Piracy” does not. This debate is pointless if you can’t wrap your head around that little technicality.
Then you thumb suck the number of times a game gets traded, for no particular reason because you don’t actually answer the question “Is the second hand market as evil as piracy because they have the same repercussions?”. So it’s okay for me to buy one legit game and pirate a thousand then, according to your logic. Or is there some made up pirated:legit ratio that you forgot to include in your post?
As if that wasn’t enough, you close off with a good slew of insults because we all know nothing gets one’s point across better then trying to belittle those who oppose your views.
Seriously though, why even bother if you don’t know how to debate?
WitWolfyZA
November 13, 2009 at 10:45
How hypocritical are we? We download music only or swop it out through cellphones and yet we frown on Game Piracy lol I know i had my fare share of napster a teenager and other downloading managers
So we all ehre are guilty on some form of piracy even if its “Recording” something on PVR,Video or DVD. Shame on all of us :ninja:
Bucket
November 13, 2009 at 10:56
A lot of readers have called into question the quality of your journalistic integrity over this matter. This got me thinking about the whole “blogger vs journalist” debate.
In my mind, LazyGamer is a blog, and its writers are not in truth journalists. I do not mean to be factitious here, just stating my viewpoint. This is not even necessarily a bad thing.
The constant use of scantily clad females to garner clicks screams blog. No respected journalist would rely the same cheap tactics. I’m not saying I have a problem with it.
My issue is rather with the term ‘journalist’ being bandied about so casually. It is my understanding that Lazy is based in Aus and is a full time coder (or something). Journalism requires training which I’m pretty sure that no one at LG has undertaken.
So my point really, is that 1) this is a prime example of how dangerous online news is, as it gives great power to people who do not have the training ir understanding to use it properly, and 2) keep in mind that LG is a blog, and as much as I do enjoy reading it daily, it should not be confused with a credible news agency.
LazySAGamer
November 13, 2009 at 11:02
Honestly the scantily clad females aren’t used to garner hits, they are used because we like looking at them…
Inflammatory headlines are a much better way to get hits and we use those quite a lot.
As for the journalist point I have to disagree with you, just getting trained in Journalism doesn’t mean your stories or articles are credible. Online news can be just as credible as ‘real’ news and ‘real’ news can be just as incorrect at times.
Just look at CNN’s, Sky’s, BBC’s and everyone elses coverage of the Balloon boy coverage to prove that point.
Everyone makes mistakes and just because we don’t have a journalism degree it doesn’t mean we aren’t credible… most of the time.
bucket
November 13, 2009 at 11:13
The reality however, is that anyone can start up a blog and publish news as they see fit.
In traditional media, journalists are trained to do this in such a way as to decrease the likelihood of reporting inaccurate information. This of course does not mean that they do not make mistakes, and nor does it mean that bloggers are always inaccurate.
Of course there are credible online news publications, and they usually employ trained journalists. You however, do not. If you had done a bachelors in Journalism at Rhodes, for example, I’m sure you would not have made the error which you did in this article? Basic fact checking and following up with sources is taught in journalism 101.
Then there is ethics in journalism, which had you studied, I doubt you would employ the inflammatory headlines which you admit to using.
All I am saying is that there is a difference between a professional news publication, and a blog. I think Lazy falls into the former, would you not agree?
Please, do not take this as a negative thing. Blogs like Shacknews dominate the online gaming space, but then, the integrity of video game ‘journalists’ is called in to question a weekly basis.
Bucket
November 13, 2009 at 11:16
“All I am saying is that there is a difference between a professional news publication, and a blog. I think Lazy falls into the former, would you not agree?” – I meant the latter :whistle:
LazySAGamer
November 13, 2009 at 11:37
Honestly I know you need to check sources and the headlines can be classed an unethical. However i can point to hundreds of newspapers worldwide who use inflammatory headlines and miss source checking on occasions.
I am not excusing it but I do disagree with your point.
Having a bachelors in journalism wouldn’t have made a difference in this case. Every day you are faced with making decisions and in online news those decisions need to be made in minutes not days.. I made a bad one but not because I didn’t know better…
I am educated, however I do not feel a degree is required to be a journalist… nor do I feel that a degree is required to be a coder, PM, technical or structural architect or many other professional careers.
Bucket
November 13, 2009 at 12:54
I think perhaps that my allusions to academic training are diluting my point.
What I really mean, is that there is a clear distinction between a blogger and a journalist.
They represent two different philosophies in regards to the manner in which information is disseminated.
Journalists (should) prescribe to traditional values which define the profession. Journalists follow protocol and strive to be objective and fair.
Bloggers need not adhere to the same principles. By definition, they have more flexibility. They may add more opinion when reporting. They may exaggerate, use sneaky hit-generating tactics etc.
There is a clear distinction between the two. As someone who has done their honors in media studies, in my opinion, LazyGamer conforms more to the ideals and practices which are inehrent in blogging than in journalism.
A degree may not be required to do many things, but they certainly are useful, especially in traditional professions such as journalism, law, medicine etc.
All credit to Lazy. You have developed a unique product which has become successful. The site is funny, entertaining and well presented. These are not necessarily hallmarks of good journalism, but they need not be in order to succeed.
LazySAGamer
November 13, 2009 at 13:16
You make a very compelling argument and I feel you are right in many points.
However at the same time I feel you are still looking at the media through old eyes.
I don’t feel we do anything sneaky for instance however Rupert Murdoch is famous for running tabloids who create stories based on barely a shred of evidence.. while at the same time running The Wall Street Journal which is one of the more respected papers in the world.
It’s all about the target market and what you as a media outlet are trying to sell.
As you have so nicely pointed out we attempt to deliver real news in an entertaining manner backed up with facts and opinions. I feel it’s the last point that leads you to think that we can’t be classed as journalists.
I am happy to be called opinionated but not sneaky.
In my mind the guys who right for The Sun in London or the Inquisitor in America are journalists but there stories are more falsified than anything you will find here.
It’s an interesting debate though and something that I will continue to think about…
Darkling
November 13, 2009 at 11:13
Nevermind the the haters Lazy,We still love you!
This “blog” won’t be the same without Geoff’s boobs!
…wait,that came out wrong.. :wassat: :wassat: :wassat:
bucket
November 13, 2009 at 11:19
Indeed. I would not visit LG as much if it were not for Geoff’s boobage 🙂
Reaver
November 13, 2009 at 12:04
As somebody who has slept in the same house as Geoff, I can honestly tell you guys that like most Asian females his age, he’s actually quite flat-chested.
LazySAGamer
November 13, 2009 at 12:25
I have to disagree there… he is generally well rounded in all the wrong places
Darkling
November 13, 2009 at 12:27
And probably for all the wrong reasons. :biggrin:
Geoff
November 13, 2009 at 12:30
Hey hey hey! when did this become “attack Geoff” day?
I happen to be sporting some quite nice boobs, I’ll have you know. If hairy male chest is your sort of thing that is.
UrbanCr33per
November 13, 2009 at 18:38
I think that people who play pirated games should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law (you included, Sparrow). The day is going to come when the authorities are going to start to take action against pirates, and I don’t think you’ll get to play any games behind bars.
Let’s face it, whether legal action is taken or not … I think that people who partake in piracy have no moral bearing. It would bother me endlessly and eat away at my conscience if I played pirated games.
I might only have 5 games, but they are genuine bought games … and it feels good to know that I’ve bought them with my well earned money. If one can’t afford to buy 100 games legally, then why the urge to get 100 games at illegal means?
sparrow
November 14, 2009 at 00:18
“I think that people who play pirated games should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law”
Do you feel the same way about other forms of piracy? Or does that only apply to the super 1337 art of gaming? And you’ve never pirated a song/movie/game/application? See you in the tjokie then.
If you think I have no moral bearing, then good for you! You are entitled to your own views and beliefs. So am I. And I happen to think that the powers that be are taking us for a ride with the ridiculous prices of games in this country, especially when you consider that we pay more for games than our richer first world counterparts. And so I refuse to buy. If pirating the games were not possible, I wouldn’t play games. So if anything, M$ should be grateful because had it not been for piracy, I definitely wouldn’t have an xbox, and I wouldn’t have PURCHASED (shock! horror!) the numerous AFFORDABLE arcade games and live subs that I have bought over the years.
Do the speeding fines that you’ve received in your lifetime also “bother [you] endlessly and eat away at [your] conscience”? I hope so, otherwise you’re just being a hypocrite.
LazySAGamer
November 14, 2009 at 01:01
Just for arguments sake you do realise the cost of games in South Africa is directly comparable to Europe and Australia… so it’s not like we are being ripped off.
And I feel that pirating applications, movies and music is just as bad as games. There is no difference.
sparrow
November 14, 2009 at 01:28
But we are being ripped, we are not paying what the games SHOULD cost in SA, we are paying what the games cost in EU/AUS. You can’t just take another territory’s price and multiply by the exchange rate to come up with a local price, there are many more factors which are way outside the scope of this post that need to be considered. But they never will be considered because this is sunny SA, land of the profiteers.
gaius
November 14, 2009 at 13:50
“Do the speeding fines that you’ve received in your lifetime also “bother [you] endlessly and eat away at [your] conscienceâ€? I hope so, otherwise you’re just being a hypocrite.â€
OMG you really didn’t think this part through… As you get fined for breaking the law, hence you pay… the part you’ve got a problem with.
Sparrow just one thing, do a better job next time you wash my windows at the robot.
sparrow
November 14, 2009 at 17:30
Okay, I’ll wash your windows if you wash my Lex.
gaius
November 15, 2009 at 11:19
Geez cool you’ve got a Lex… please everybody if you’ve got a Lex check your driveways to see if it’s still there?
sparrow
November 14, 2009 at 17:34
According to your logic, it’s okay to do the crime [speed] if you’re willing to do the time [pay fine], right? That’s fine by me, if I ever get caught then I’ll just pay the fine. Clearly it is YOU who did not think they’re argument through. But keep trying.
UrbanCr33per
November 18, 2009 at 09:23
Sparrow, I do believe that any form of piracy is wrong. It equates to theft. My collection of movies made up of almost 300 legit DVDs, which I bought over the years. The music I have is in the form of my collection of music CDs that I have bought. I also don’t pirate applications … if I can’t afford an application, I either go without it, or I get an open source alternative. So you won’t see me in the “tjokie” … you’ll be there all on your own (and considering that you’re so vocal about your piracy, I’m hoping that they’re going to make an example of you … deal with you first).
Do the speeding fines I’ve received bother me endlessly? No … I’ve paid for the fines that I’ve received … and each time when I paid, I knew that I got what I deserved. That doesn’t make me a hypocrite. Sparrow, have you been “blessed” with a low IQ? Do the people you know refer to you as “special”? Your logic is totally illogical. I don’t see how speeding fines tie in with piracy … because speeding fines are the punishment, not the crime. So by me getting speeding fines, I have received my punishment … your punishment is still waiting for you.
Sparrow, which ever way you want to rationalize it … piracy is theft (based on the law, not my interpretation of it). Considering that you don’t have any problem with piracy and theft … don’t complain the next time someone breaks into your house and cleans you out, or the next time someone hijacks your car … “car manufacturers are ripping us off, so I’m not going to buy a car, I’m just going to take one” … that’s what your rationale translates to … so don’t get upset when someone else has this rationale and takes your car or your TV.
In the end, the wheel is turning … you might be gloating in piracy now, but the day is going to come when you will be punished for it. It’s karma. When your life goes sour oneday, just remember what I’m telling you today … you brought it on yourself!
IloveBobbyKotick
November 16, 2009 at 12:52
I agree, but I think it should extend to movies, tv shows and music .. oh wait it does (better start deleting some stuff of your hard drives folks) :pirate:
purpledragon
November 13, 2009 at 22:10
I am of the opinion that pirating games actually contributes to high prices of games. So it irritates the kak out of me when people pirate games “because they cost too much”. I say, if you can’t afford it don’t play games or get a job!
And really, why brag about it like Sparrow? Also why feel the need to justify it? You obviously feel guilty about it and need to make yourselves feel better. Silly fuckers.
George
November 14, 2009 at 00:25
Than why Is’t PS3 games half the price of xbox games(Since the PS3 is still pirate free), We’re all getting screwed over.
Corporate greed FTL.
sparrow
November 14, 2009 at 02:11
Where have you been? Don’t you know the price of making each bluray disc is a thousand dollars? We actually get them for cheap then it seems
/sarcasm
sparrow
November 14, 2009 at 00:51
“I am of the opinion that pirating games actually contributes to high prices of games”
The keyword in that sentence is “opinion”, nudge wink. How could me pirating something I would never pay for had it not been possible to pirate it, possibly contribute to the high prices of games? But of course that’s what “they” want you to think, passing the buck so that you’re busy being so angry with me instead of questioning the real reasons behind expensive games.
And I’ve got a job, thank you very much, probably pays more than yours (okay maybe not), but that doesn’t mean I can’t do something about being ripped off. I guess that’s why only a few people are rich, they know how not to waste money on overpriced products.
“And really, why brag about it like Sparrow? Also why feel the need to justify it? You obviously feel guilty about it and need to make yourselves feel better.”
Brag? Who’s bragging? Oh I get it, you and your brethren are allowed your opinions of “pirates are scum” and we can’t defend ourselves for fear of being accused of feeling guilty or bragging? I feel no feelings of guilt whatsoever, and I’m starting to think that it is YOU who feel like fools for forking out the cash to buy all these expensive games, while some of us get them for *FREE, and so you resort to reverse psychology guilt trips. Get this through your head: most pirates do not give a damn! Our consciences are clear. It gets really tiring reading about how guilty I supposedly feel about piracy.
“Silly fuckers.” Wow, how mature of you. Relax, all I’m doing is bringing one of the many views from the other side. You don’t have to agree with it, but try to understand. Or not. Whatever.
LazySAGamer
November 14, 2009 at 01:05
Where on your decaying moral compass do you find it okay to steal someone elses livelihood?
If you feel the price of games is to high then you can vote with your wallet and not buy them, however by pirating the game you are just proving that you are cheap and have no respect for your fellow man.
I am willing to bet you would be one of the first to moan about the corruption and crime in the country but this is entirely different isn’t it?
Whether you feel guilty or not is a pretty moot point, there is no defence to what you are doing and fools like us are the ones who keep the industry going. That very same industry you get your enjoyment from.
sparrow
November 14, 2009 at 01:49
Do you really think it’s fair of you to judge my moral compass based on this one subject? I don’t.
The reason why you feel I am cheap for pirating is because you cannot stop thinking of piracy as theft, even though it’s not. I can’t afford the games, or I feel they’re horribly overpriced, so I pirate it. Either way, whether I pirate it or not, I still did not buy it. So what difference does it make in the real world? The money made from me is the same in both cases: R0. So I have voted with my wallet.
Actually, I don’t moan about corruption and the resultant high levels of crime in the country, I intend to do something about it someday soon. But that’s another story for another day.
You feel like there is no defence, probably because there is none, but who needs it? I have my own take on the matter, that I honestly and seriously believe in, and that’s enough for me.
The only way this argument will ever be resolved, is if all publishers drop the prices of games to a quarter of current prices for a year to see the kind of sales and piracy figures that would be reported. But that will never happen. Why? Greed.
LazySAGamer
November 14, 2009 at 14:56
I do class piracy as theft as you are taking something that doesn’t belong to you without permission or remuneration. Using archaic logic based on physical assets is fundamentally flawed.
Also stating that the price of the games shouldn’t be comparable to the price in the US or ER is, to put it bluntly, insane. The games are base priced according to the cost of development and seeing as the development is done in the EU, Oz or US then it is pretty obvious that those prices are fundamental to the equation.
Some publishers have dropped prices and even allowed people to pay what they saw fit and what happened? The vast majority paid $1 for the game because they were cheap and knew they would get away with it.
It’s got nothing to do with greed, it’s to do with needing the money to create great games.
sparrow
November 14, 2009 at 17:36
But Lazy, WHAT ABOUT THE SECOND HAND GAMES MARKET?
LazySAGamer
November 15, 2009 at 12:06
I ignored the second hand games market comment as it has nothing to do with piracy.
In my opinion there is nothing wrong with the second hand games market. If I no longer feel I am getting value out of a game that I paid for then I should be allowed to sell it and move on.
If a developer doesn’t want this to happen they can keep on releasing DLC for the game. If the game is being played all the time it won’t be sold.
But again this has absolutely nothing to do with piracy. If I buy a game I can sell it…
sparrow
November 14, 2009 at 01:54
And for interest’s sake, what’s your take on the second hand market? And do you not feel that it also hurts the industry? Shouldn’t those who cannot afford brand new games vote with their wallets and stop being cheap?
Nick de Bruyne
November 14, 2009 at 23:06
There is more to the gaming industry than the developers. Second hand, at least the developers got their money for the original copy. With you, they get nothing at all. Multiply that by all the pirates, voila, problem.
George
November 14, 2009 at 08:51
The chance is good that the next generation of consoles might not have Opical drives at all, and rely soley on digital distrubution. at the same time eliminating the 2nd hand market.
we can only hope that this brings the Price of games down as their is less parties taking a slice of the pie.
However with M$, that does’nt seem likely.
Milesh Bhana ZA
November 19, 2009 at 18:40
I wonder if they’ll take that risk (completely digital), that would hurt ALOT of retail outlets.
I’m sure places like Gamestop, Best Buy etc (sorry i don’t know big US retail chains), may actually be able to sue MS/Sony for cutting them out.
Yes, i know it’s not against the law, but US lawsuits are always… interesting.
bokka1
November 14, 2009 at 09:18
As said in my comment on the top I hate it when the fuckers come here and try to justify their actions.
sparrow
November 14, 2009 at 17:44
And I hate it when righteous gentlemen try to make themselves feel better by thinking that every time a pirate speaks he’s just trying to justify his actions. Do you not understand that to justify, you must care? So how can I try to justify my pirate ways if I just don’t give a damn? But I guess I’m asking too much from you, what with you not being able to say something without hurling insults.
BurnsZAnowUK
November 14, 2009 at 11:02
Agree with Bokka.
There is no justification for piracy.
Inferno888
November 16, 2009 at 09:16
What about the places supplying pirate copies? I have alerted crime line numerous occasions on a particular vendor, with no action taken…
Super_Bonk
November 16, 2009 at 10:12
Interesting topic. But I must say that there appears to be a fundamental lack of understanding about the issues. Like I said in an earlier post, it would be great if lazy gave us a really in depth article about piracy looking at both sides of the argument.
IloveBobbyKotick
November 16, 2009 at 10:40
I agree Super_Bonk. Lazy we require a balanced article on piracy, and not an emotive plea on why it’s “supposedly” such an evil. You’ve said on numerous occasions that you’re a journalist, therefore act like one.
This is slightly off the topic, but for the so called non-pirates on this site, how many of you have downloaded or watched a downloaded tv show? Why is that not considered ‘stealing’ and the piracy of games is? I would assume they’re both the same, or are we merely hypocrites?
LazySAGamer
November 16, 2009 at 11:24
Downloading a TV show or movie is piracy.. it’s not a grey area.
We are going to try and out together an article on piracy in the coming days…
Super_Bonk
November 16, 2009 at 11:52
Hulu is free and other networks offer you the ability to stream TV shows for free. The best way to combat piracy is by actually offering consumers something a good product.
Anyways we living in age where you don’t buy a product anymore but merely the licence to use said product. It would be nice to discuss this, since this maybe the issue between Gearbox and Valve recently. ^_^ Keep the peace people..
IloveBobbyKotick
November 16, 2009 at 12:14
Hulu only works for those in the US, or those smart enough to use a proxy (which may not be illegal, but the act of viewing material that was region locked is, see how messy this gets?) :pirate:
IloveBobbyKotick
November 16, 2009 at 12:12
Exactly, and yet, those who lament the plight of game developers will still go home and watch a downloaded copy of heroes season 4 (that they or their friends downloaded), but I’m sure not EVERYONE does that, right? :pirate:
Super_Bonk
November 16, 2009 at 12:27
Region locking is quite a murky topic and it depends on your interpretation of the law. For me region locking is by all means illegal and there is no commercial advantage to it.
To me the more important question concerns the legality of End User Licence Agreements. What is mind boggling though, is the fact that people think developers are okay with the second hand market. By all means go and sell my intellectual property and make money from it, I appreciate all the hard work you guys put in. ^_^
Super_Bonk
November 16, 2009 at 12:33
Oops!! Sorry for the badly written post up there!
IloveBobbyKotick
November 16, 2009 at 12:46
Region locking is legal (i.e. as defined by some legal statute, be it a law or even an end user agreement etc.), circumventing region locking on the other hand is illegal (because you’re breaking an end user agreement), however it does get murky, because not all territories recognise those declarations.. cough China… (copyright legislation works in the same way, hence you can freely download in Canada, or until recently, when they changed their laws Sweden). In any case, in South Africa, our laws are pretty clear on where we stand regarding copyright etc., so if you’re downloading intellectual material YOU ARE A PIRATE :p And that includes you… Mr “I’ve been watching last week’s Heroes season 4” :pirate:
IloveBobbyKotick
November 16, 2009 at 10:57
Another point I want to add before I disappear into the ether, everyone here seems to be on the European version of xbox live. That meant that all of you had to have committed credit card fraud just to use the service (and by your own admittance as well). If we’re going to be prosecuting people for breaking the law (digital piracy and all), perhaps we should look a little closer to home? 😛 :sideways: 😆
I’m sure you’re going to say, “ya but it’s not the same”, when in fact it is, a law (a few actually) has been broken. :heart: The point I’m trying to make is, that it’s all relative.
eXp
November 16, 2009 at 11:12
Never used a Credit Card to buy a sub and I have a UK account. Just bought a worldwide pre-paid card.
IloveBobbyKotick
November 16, 2009 at 12:16
Then you were lucky to sign up recently (or within the last year or so), but before, you needed a credit card, and you had to commit an (albeit tiny) white collar crime. 😛
Super_Bonk
November 16, 2009 at 13:27
@IloveBobbyKotick
I agree with you 100 percent. But to me EULA and regional locking are two different things. What I am trying to get at is if you question the validity of it hard enough than it carries no weight.
Oh and Heroes has not been the same since the first season. More of a Fringe guy these days.
IloveBobbyKotick
November 16, 2009 at 13:48
I know what you’re getting at, but it seems the only way not to sign a EULA is to not use the application (i.e. no to install it). Unfortunately, there’s no way around it. As for region locking, be it in browsers (hulu, netflix etc.), games or even physical media like DVDs, the legality of it can be tested but it stands as is. Hulu and netflix will say that they only have a license for US users, and the same is true for why DVDs and games are locked. You could always argue that all of this is artificial, and become a pirate :pirate:
@Super_bonk: Yeah they did lose a lot of steam during that ill-fated second season, but the writer’s strike might have had more to do with that then anything else. I just hope it doesn’t become a jumbled up mess like Lost.
Super_Bonk
November 16, 2009 at 14:00
Kudos for the calm discussion. Now let me finish that report I am suppose to get done
lariato
November 19, 2009 at 15:29
I hate the fact that pirates make any excuse to justify piracy. And that, in my opinion, is the reason why PC gaming is in the pits at the moment.
Hey, I don’t mind backing up your own crap, but when companies like the source (whom I’ve admittedly bought Japanese only games from before), spin it off and say “we’re a back-up service”, it ticks me off. How is it possible to be a back-up service when you have games that aren’t even released yet?
Also, Second hand games aren’t the issue, the game has been bought and paid for already, it’s like a transfer of ownership I’d like to think :whistle:
tv_ex_pirate
November 19, 2009 at 18:02
Actually, I see nothing wrong with downloading tv-shows. I pay my TV licence, i pay my DSTV subscription, i pay for the bandwidth. So why can’t i download Fringe S2 instead of waiting till Feb 2010 when they’ll start airing it. I’d rather see it now, that having it spoilt by reading a news site and seeing spoilers.
(I found out who the final 5 were in BSG before we got it here… how kuk is that!!, that’s what happens when you’re so far behind the rest of the world)
I don’t get downloaded shows anymore, but not because i’m now against it, I eventually invested in a PVR, and keeping up with what’s airing is all i have time for, no need to skip ahead.