Last week we reported on some new Xbox rumours posted up by VGLeaks, most of these were positive with the big surprise being that Microsoft were planning on releasing an Xbox lite that would snap onto the Durango (new Xbox) to enable backwards compatibility.
Well according to some new rumours, posted by an anonymous member of neogaf, that is only half true.
In fact what Microsoft has been keeping secret from virtually everyone is the fact that the Xbox 360 SOC (the BC part if you will) will actually be built into every single new Durango unit. So all Durango’s will be 100% backward compatible from day one.
The confusion came in as this Xbox Mini device is a real thing and will be sold separately and is designed to go head to head with the Apple TV device. It will not have a disc drive but it will be able to download full titles and arcade titles which will then be fully playable.
But that’s not all the leak has posted a ton of information up via pastebin with the key points being
- More power: That Xbox 360 SOC that is being welded onto the device means more than just backwards compatibility. It means there is another full, and entirely separate, CPU for the developers to utilise which drastically increases the options open to them.
- Kinect 2.0: Again the specs from VGLeaks are correct, there’s been no change and there won’t be. However, the fact is, is that software can do ANYTHING, and with the quite substantial increase in the hardware over Kinect 1.0, any humanly noticeable lag should be gone
- Controller: The controller is pretty much the same. The D-Pad has been improved, but the change will only be noticeable when actually using it
- Indie Friendly: Since Durango’s operating system is Windows 8 then any indie games made for the Windows App Store will work perfectly on the Durango, once controller support is added, meaning that Indie’s will not require dev consoles to create titles for the console
And that’s the current state of play, I think the idea of including full BC is a good idea with the amount of solid titles still left in this generation and as long as the pricing hits the mark we could be in for a good announcement conference in early May.
Thanks to Scot Cowley for the tip
Last Updated: April 17, 2013
Martin du preez
April 17, 2013 at 09:52
LoL! That’s what’s going around as “Exciting” and “Shattup and take my money” these days?? Shame,Xbox land is so hungry for anything positive these days!
Rincethis: Spellalicious
April 17, 2013 at 10:51
Agreed, you should have seen my post yesterday with these exact same sentiments 🙂
Sir Rants-a-Lot Llew
April 17, 2013 at 09:55
Now that would be a good move on their part.
100% compatibility would open up the console to early adopters and those who normally wouldn’t get it early because they wouldn’t have to worry about their old games not working.
Now, if they prove the always-on rumours to be false then it really can be a contender against the PS4
Slade Boender
April 17, 2013 at 10:00
The fact that PS4 wont be backwards compatible does irk me somewhat, but I’ll remain to the blue side than green.
OVG
April 17, 2013 at 10:15
No Mandatory MOVE 2 either 🙂
Slade Boender
April 17, 2013 at 10:40
Always a great choice. I hate it when things stare at me /:
Sir Rants-a-Lot Llew
April 17, 2013 at 10:15
Well, each person has their preference. I’m no console fan, but if I had to chose I do think I would lean towards the Playstation myself.
Slade Boender
April 17, 2013 at 10:41
Im not the biggest console player ever, PC’s always been in the blood from a young age, but you know, you need something fun when the mates are over and everyone’s drunk. i mean you cant claim rockstar with no guitar right?
Rincethis: Spellalicious
April 17, 2013 at 09:55
I won’t buy a next gen for at least 3 years if it doesn’t offer BC. No way ye sir.
Slade Boender
April 17, 2013 at 09:58
My sentiments exactly, I generally stay away from 1st generation consoles. Let the problems wiggle their way to the surface and get rectified. Nothings perfect on the first go.
Macethy
April 17, 2013 at 10:48
Agreed. I will wait for the PS4 Slim and the Xbox “whatever it’s going to be called” Slim to come out before getting them.
Deano
April 17, 2013 at 10:51
This is probly the best idea, althou I dont have the will power to hold out that long.
Skyblue
April 17, 2013 at 11:11
Agreed as I am a bit of an old school collector (hoarder?) and it irks me to have to pay for the same game over and over again “now in HD” ala Steam, Live! and PS Store
Rincethis: Spellalicious
April 17, 2013 at 11:27
Totally. If I buy a game, I should be allowed to play that for as long as I want, not like EA and their Facebook BULLSHIT.
OVG
April 17, 2013 at 09:58
Mandatory Kinect 2!!
SONY TAKE MY MONEY!!!!
Rincethis: Spellalicious
April 17, 2013 at 10:52
Hahahah!
Brady miaau
April 17, 2013 at 11:09
awesome.
Why a downvote?
deeboy17
April 17, 2013 at 12:24
What about mandatory PS eye? Same thing.
Deano
April 17, 2013 at 09:59
Day 1 BC is going to be a important factor when it comes to being a early or late adopter of the New 360, cant wait to hear the official news.
Wyzak
April 17, 2013 at 10:07
I don’t care much for rumours. I will wait a few months after release and look at the facts.
Brady miaau
April 17, 2013 at 11:08
well said
umar bastra
April 17, 2013 at 10:10
Sad state of affairs when BC is exciting …THOUGH it is good news 🙂
Gavin Mannion
April 17, 2013 at 10:31
I think the extra processor is the really exciting part
Tbone187
April 17, 2013 at 10:46
I reckon the Win8 integration is key as well…
Brady miaau
April 17, 2013 at 11:08
Is this not what they did for Xbox to Xbox 360 BC?
umar bastra
April 17, 2013 at 11:55
Ahh I see, my bad then. That is exciting. extra power is never a bad thing. Ninty Nine Nights son, we gonna millions of characters on screen
FoxOneZA - The Chosen One
April 17, 2013 at 11:04
It’s the extra processor that’s got everyone raving. Also, I would rather trust MS would PC architecture than a fledgling fridge manufacturer.
SojournZA
April 17, 2013 at 10:25
I dont understand how people could say that it wouldnt have backwards compatibility, the xbox architecture was similar to a pc in the 360 version, and now the new one is still like a pc. therefore the games should work np, unlike the cell processer to a pc architecture (ps4)
and for those saying backwards compatibility isnt a big thing, they are very wrong, many people have invested heavily into the 360 marketplace, having these dlc’s and games etc carried across will be absolutely wonderful, compared to the ps4 failure at this
Johan du Preez
April 17, 2013 at 10:47
No it wasn’t they ran on IBM PowerPC instruction set architecture which is way different than x86
FoxOneZA - The Chosen One
April 17, 2013 at 10:58
It’s still X86.
Brady miaau
April 17, 2013 at 11:04
No, it is not. If memory serves the PowerPC is risc. The assembly (machine instruction set) for the PowerPC is different to the X86.
It may have used the some ideas a a PC, like a motherboard, ram and so forth, but it was certainly not a PC
It is way different, as Johan said.
HvR
April 17, 2013 at 11:26
LOL, you guys seriously over estimate the low-level/hardware skill of game developers. Give any software developer an assembly instruction, mention RISC or show them a few registers their eyes glaze over before they have an aneurism.
Anything directly hardware related is done by specialized MS engineers, then on that a few layers (probably 3 or 4) of modules and drivers are added which is nicely package in and SDK/IDE which is used by game devs.
The problem here (I suspect) is MS took a completely redesigned their system from the bottom up for Win 8 making all previous API’s and dev kits obsolete.
Brady miaau
April 17, 2013 at 11:39
I work in that industry, hence my interest. Not games, engineering stuff.
And yes, the average developer’s eyes glaze over very quickly when you do low level. I never mentioned that they program in assembly, but your compiler is written for a certain process architecture. I compile in C for X86 and compile in C for, say, an MSP from Texas intruments or a Renesas chip, the assembly is different.
But my main point is the Xbox 360 and a PC are not the same processor architecture at all.
SojournZA
April 17, 2013 at 11:42
I said at the start they are similar. unlike the cell processor that is miles apart
this is common knowledge, no clue why u arguing
Brady miaau
April 17, 2013 at 11:51
I think perhaps we are saying the same thing?
SojournZA
April 17, 2013 at 11:58
no i still stand by that the pc is similar to the xbox, here are some links for you if you still dont believe or you could just google “xbox 360 architecture similar to pc?”
http://www.videogamer.com/xbox360/brink/news/ps3_was_like_alien_technology_says_brink_dev.html#
(The truth of it is the Xbox 360 is quite similar to a PC in terms of architecture)
compared to his response on the ps3
(The PlayStation 3, for us, was just alien technology.)
or for a detailed cpu look here:
http://beautifulpixels.blogspot.com/2008/08/multi-platform-multi-core-architecture.html
point is the pc is very similar to the xbox
Brady miaau
April 17, 2013 at 12:19
Ok, I read the articles. Interesting stuff
I agree with you from a systems architecture point of view, the Xbox 360 and the PX are put together in a very similar way. Also the dev environment for Xbox 360 is somewhat familiar to Windows based developers, so is easier to get into (so I understand).
Ultimately, though, the point of backwards incompatibility depends on how the new one is put together. An interesting thing to be sure, but compiled software needs a certain environment to run in. That is what I am trying to say.
SojournZA
April 17, 2013 at 12:22
yeh but we speculating on rumors now
we will just have to wait and see i guess
but like i said at the start they are similar so i dont see an issue, and if it has backwards compatibility it will be better then the ps4 as your marketplace items are still an investment you get to keep, where sony is basically telling you that you will lose everything you have purchased if you move over
Brady miaau
April 17, 2013 at 12:34
I think we have similar opinions, but I also think wait and see is the important thing.
Still, an interesting chat.
HvR
April 17, 2013 at 11:59
No you compile for your run time environment. On small processor (ex MSP430, 8051) your environment is your vendor specific processor. On PC your environment is your OS, thus your dev kit (libraries, compiler, VS etc) is specific to your OS and independent from your processor(I can run win xp 32 bit on pentium133, AMDK3, up to i8 or PowerPC it makes no difference to application I’m running which is .
THe Xbox360 is an PowerPC running window 2000.
The problem with BC is Win8 is incompatible with windows 2000 up to the lowest levels.
Brady miaau
April 17, 2013 at 12:08
yes.
.net framework, for example, on Windows 7 is where you average .net app runs.
SojournZA
April 17, 2013 at 11:01
not that different as the programmers have always said its a few extra strings added to get it to work in a 360, unlike the ps3
would you like me to find links for you?
Brady miaau
April 17, 2013 at 11:20
http://www.windowsfordevices.com/c/a/News/The-scoop-on-the-Xbox-360s-embedded-OS/
The table near the bottom should suffice.
The original xbox, as shown in the table, was indeed a PC, with a customised OS in order to better utlise the hardware.
Also read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_hardware
SojournZA
April 17, 2013 at 11:35
This is what im finding so funny about yours and Johan’s responses:
Xbox 360 is programmed via the below:
C++, mainly. Xbox 360, more C# with XNA. Yes, they are OOP. IDEs,
mostly Visual Studio where these languages themselves are concerned.
This is the industry standard, do you know what instruction sets are? there essentially shortcuts for a system, ofc they will be different between systems. the issue between ps3 development and xbox 360 development is that they are worlds apart. you can google to your hearts content regarding this as every developer has complained about the ps3 having a crappy cell processer to program for.
would you like me to also post a link to where the lead tech designer for the ps3 has come out to say the cell was a mistake in design for developers?
this isnt a straight hate out on ps3’s its just a general understanding that you arent coming to terms with
Brady miaau
April 17, 2013 at 11:46
Hi.
I did not think we were talking about programming. I just commented because the processor architecture is indeed not the same as a PC.
And yes, XNA and C++, C# and all that can be used to write games and software for the xbox. They then run on the platform they are written for. no problems. I have even played around (many years ago) with XNA.
My point is the new xbox and the old xbox 360 have different architecture. So the compiled games for Xbox 360 may not run in the Xbox New. Hence the chip?
I think perhaps I did not understand initial comment
“I dont understand how people could say that it wouldnt have backwards compatibility, the xbox architecture was similar to a pc in the 360 version, and now the new one is still like a pc. therefore the games should work np, unlike the cell processer to a pc architecture (ps4)”
SojournZA
April 17, 2013 at 11:50
np if you didn’t understand, just like i said before, developers all say its easy to develop for a xbox 360 unlike the ps3
the cell processor was a bEEEg issue, people couldn’t utilize it correctly, unlike the xbox
Johan du Preez
April 17, 2013 at 14:19
LOL ok so if they did it in C++ it willmagically support all the instruction sets ? You have to program that in there otherwise it will not work …….
Its obvious that you are a google warrior and have no clue what you are talking about. If you develop something from the ground up to work on PPC using C++ and you want to run it say on x86/ARM etc its not magically going to work because you developed it in the industry standard C++ …..
You have to do quite a bit of work to get it to work on other architectures. so no they are not the same. Here is a simple test for you …..
Go and try install say windows xp on a arm system…. wow it does not work …. wonder why?
SojournZA
April 17, 2013 at 14:24
sigh read the rest of the forum posts, instead of trolling or as mentioned before just googlebingwateva “xbox 360 architecture similar to pc?”.
Amazing how many developers (the guys that actually do this for a living) will agree with my point an yet you think im a googling warrior. Its pretty common knowledge dude
NICE TROLLING, not
SojournZA
April 17, 2013 at 11:12
LOL
Zero-Cool
April 17, 2013 at 10:27
Fully BC? Shut up and take my money!
FoxOneZA - The Chosen One
April 17, 2013 at 10:57
Want! Want! Want! Want!Want! Want!Want! Want!Want! Want!Want! Want!Want! Want!
FoxOneZA - The Chosen One
April 17, 2013 at 11:54
1 x PS4 troll downvote -_____-
Martin du preez
April 17, 2013 at 11:58
……….
FoxOneZA - The Chosen One
April 17, 2013 at 13:34
“And not a single tear was shed during the fanboi wars” – Fox, circa 2006
Tbone187
April 17, 2013 at 10:58
If the PS would be BC, I reckon loads of Xbox faithfuls may consider a move across to enjoy the mountain of exclusives Sony has…Don’t think it’ll be as effective the other way around tho…
Wtf101
April 17, 2013 at 11:17
Dude, if the current “mountain of exclusives Sony has…” haven’t moved me to get a PS3 yet, there is no way in hell that the PS4 and its BC will do so.
Tbone187
April 17, 2013 at 11:32
Every half decent gamer craves some MGS at some point in their lives…Lets not live in denial…hehe…
It will make sense though: If I currently own an xbox and considering a next gen console, why not a PS4 for next gen games and have the ability to enjoy those exclusives i missed with this gen all in one go…
I’m thrifty like dat and don’t portray brand loyalty in the console market at all…
Wtf101
April 17, 2013 at 11:45
I dunno. Maybe PS3 exclusives never really appealed to me.
Tbone187
April 17, 2013 at 11:51
Unchartered series, MGS, God of War, the up coming The Last of Us…those are just the main ones I’d say…
Wtf101
April 17, 2013 at 11:55
And yet here I am, still not impressed.
Tbone187
April 17, 2013 at 12:01
Hehehe…I’m certainly keen those tho…Different strokes I suppose…Xbox essentially has Halo , Gears and Forza of note…
umar bastra
April 17, 2013 at 12:01
Ni No kuni 🙂
FoxOneZA - The Chosen One
April 17, 2013 at 11:57
There’s a lot of over rated exclusives in Sony’s stable like Infamous, Ratchet and Clank, GT 5 (Trolololo), Ferarri Legends, etc.
Tbone187
April 17, 2013 at 12:04
Probably.Keep in mind, I’m a pc gamer so there is an element of envy with a lot of titles….hehehe….
FoxOneZA - The Chosen One
April 17, 2013 at 13:35
LOLz… I game on all 3 platforms. There’s better 3rd party games on the gaming scene.
Tbone187
April 17, 2013 at 12:04
Probably.Keep in mind, I’m a pc gamer so there is an element of envy with a lot of titles….hehehe….
Nathan O
April 18, 2013 at 08:16
Uncharted 3 was the only game worth owning a PS3 for. After you’ve beaten that you have seen all the PS3 has to offer. GoW is garbage and is getting worse with every installment. MGS is okay but it is more like watching a mediocre movie than playing a game. Killzone is a competent shooter with no defining gameplay feature to set it apart from the 100’s of other FPSs. The Last of Us looks great, of course it’s by Naughty Dog which IMO is the only worthwhile developer Sony has in their pocket.
Brady miaau
April 17, 2013 at 11:11
My Xbox 360 is struggling to read some DVD’s. Perhaps this is the sign that I should be an early purchaser?
But will I then be part of the “beta” test of the hardware in mass production and then suffer the new “RROD”?
Testing hardware / complete systems in small batches (like 10 000) and then seriously mass producing is not the same thing.
FoxOneZA - The Chosen One
April 17, 2013 at 11:58
Then I’m sure you never had a device go faulty ever before?
Brady miaau
April 17, 2013 at 12:22
Not at all, had many devices go faulty. And it is a hassle to have repaired, even under warranty.
I just think waiting for an updated release of the hardware should be considered.
FoxOneZA - The Chosen One
April 17, 2013 at 13:36
Or wait for a price drop 😀
Brady miaau
April 17, 2013 at 13:54
🙂
Nathan O
April 18, 2013 at 08:12
You’ll be waiting for a long, long while
HvR
April 17, 2013 at 11:39
I call big stinky BS!!!!
It is not easy to “just welded on” a processor and woopy do here we go.
The problem with BC on the next Xbox has sweet bugger all to do with processors and hardware but that Win8 is completely incompatible with the Windows 2000 (DIRECT3D reliant) based Xbox360 OS API and dev tools.
IF THIS RUMORS ARE TRUE.
The SoC is a stripped down 360 with a big I/O connected to the new system and will be made compatible with Win8 and only used for BC. NO extra power, processor for normal use.
RichardC
April 17, 2013 at 12:05
Eh, sounds lame still, besides that Xbox360 SOC doesnt mean more power, the architecture is too different, itll cost you more power to actually have the two architectures communicate with each other on that high level, it will be used for 360 games thats it, itll jus be like the PS3 60GB consoles that had the PS2’s emotion engine built in, its the only reason they doing it cause Durango cant emulate the 360. Kinect sux and will never be hardcore enough.
I think you definitely need a dev console to develop for the system, its not just about the controller, its about code and shader optimisation and a bunch of stuff.
HvR
April 17, 2013 at 12:07
Not the true HvR (time to register at DisQus it seems) but I concur.
HvR
April 17, 2013 at 12:12
Sorry RihardC, something very weird with display names to the comments on my side.
deeboy17
April 17, 2013 at 12:38
Backwards compatibility wins from the start. This last Gen was a long one and many people have many games left over from this generation. Sony only mentioned what they wanted to do through streaming in the future of this next Gen not what could be done. I do know one thing whatever Sony is planning won’t be free on PS network.
sourabh
April 17, 2013 at 17:15
If next gen Xbox comes with BC then it will be preferred more against ps4…