Nvidia’s Gameworks is a suite of middleware tools that game developers can use to make their games look better on machines that are fitted with Nvidia’s high-end video cards. Unfortunately for the many gamers who opt for the other side of the fence, that means those games often perform worse than they rightly should. Some claim that Nvidia is using GameWorks to leverage its dominance, by penalising performance on AMD systems. AMD, as you’d imagine, is not exactly a fan of the toolset either, calling it “tragic.”
Speaking to PCR, AMD’s “gaming scientist” Richard Huddy has said that Gameworks is damaging, and far more nefarious than it just being an optional set of visual effects.
“If it was just that, then people could say: ‘I’ll take my choice and turn it off if I’m with AMD and leave it on if I’m with Nvidia. But I think it’s more negative than that – and I’ll point to two facts here,” Richard Huddy told PCR.
Huddy seems convinced that Nvidia is crippling performance on its own cards, forcing its consumers to go out and buy new hardware.
“Number one: Nvidia Gameworks typically damages the performance on Nvidia hardware as well, which is a bit tragic really. It certainly feels like it’s about reducing the performance, even on high-end graphics cards, so that people have to buy something new.
“That’s the consequence of it, whether it’s intended or not – and I guess I can’t read anyone’s minds so I can’t tell you what their intention is. But the consequence of it is it brings PCs to their knees when it’s unnecessary. And if you look at Crysis 2 in particular, you see that they’re tessellating water that’s not visible to millions of triangles every frame, and they’re tessellating blocks of concrete – essentially large rectangular objects – and generating millions of triangles per frame which are useless.
“Now, bringing down AMD’s performance is pretty dodgy, but when they bring down their own consumers’ performance, then it makes you wonder what they’re up to. Their QA must be appalling if it’s a mistake, and if it’s not a mistake, it makes you wonder what their motivation must be. So I think it’s very unhelpful for the business.
“If you look at the way the performance metrics come out, it’s damaging to both Nvidia’s consumers and ours, though I guess they choose it because it’s most damaging to ours. That’s my guess.”
The other point is that Nvidia doesn’t seem to care about the impact Gameworks has on not just the performance of games, but also how they’re received.
“[Nvidia] don’t seem to care what the impact of GameWorks has on games either,” he says “If you look through the Metacritic scores of the games that Nvidia works with, they’re often quite damaged by the Gameworks inclusion, or at least the games themselves don’t score as well as you’d hope.
He believes Gameworks is damaging to PC gaming.
“So I think it’s unhealthy for PC gaming. And I wish they would go back to the way everyone else develops their SDKs – give it a source code, let the games developer work with it as they see fit, and let us take the industry as a whole forward. That would be a better place to play.”
While I do agree that Gameworks is perhaps not all it’s cracked up to be, I do also think there’s a bit of sour grapes going on. Nvidia, as we’ve told you, has a stranglehold on the GPU market, and that’s unlikely to change much.
This sort of nonsense should all hopefully start going away in the near future with the adoption of DirectX 12, which gives AMD hardware – particularly on the low end – a big boost.
Last Updated: August 3, 2015
James Anderton
August 3, 2015 at 13:59
I would take you more seriously AMD if you could actually compete.
RustedFaith
August 3, 2015 at 14:42
and you buddy are exacly whats wrong with the gaming industry. He points out a valid problem in the game industry and you go on your fanboy rant not giving a fuck about the industry are worse of after the fact. But fuck yeh go Nvidia fuck the industry up whooohooo.
He is 100% correct full stop … any nvidia gameworks game runs like shit comapred to other better looking games. Lords of the Fallen uses 6.5GB of vram due to gameworks.
Gigabyte G1 Gaming 980 TI owner out …
RustedFaith
August 3, 2015 at 14:42
and you buddy are exacly whats wrong with the gaming industry. He points out a valid problem in the game industry and you go on your fanboy rant not giving a fuck about the industry are worse of after the fact. But fuck yeh go Nvidia fuck the industry up whooohooo.
He is 100% correct full stop … any nvidia gameworks game runs like shit comapred to other better looking games. Lords of the Fallen uses 6.5GB of vram due to gameworks.
Gigabyte G1 Gaming 980 TI owner out …
James Anderton
August 3, 2015 at 15:04
Yep, that’s why when AMD released Mantle, the rest of us had a mental breakdown /s
In a year from now DX12 will be in almost every new title and AMD can stop with this incessant whining.
RustedFaith
August 3, 2015 at 16:16
Wowy you are quite mentally challenged are you ?
You just dont get it the conversation is not about your fanboy opinion about GPU vendors its about a company willingly fragmenting the industry.
Let me spell out why I quoted my card because you clearly have trouble thinking, its because the first reply your mentally challenged brain would have latched on was that I am probably a AMD fanboy.
No one is talking about AMD vs Nvidia or Mantle vs Directx vs Directx 12, its about a corporate fragmenting the market on purpose for profit margins. (I hope the second time I say it it might sink in but I wont hold my breath).
Its not just AMD complaining its a big part of the market that sees this but then again doing some research is below you oh mighty Nvidia fanboy …
But hey whatever floats your boat, go ahead attach yourself to a corporate brand if your self worth is so low ….
#Clueless
MakeItLegal
August 4, 2015 at 08:05
holding my breath for you
onstrike112
August 4, 2015 at 08:56
Exactly what I’ve been saying about the GPU “battle” the entire time. I prefer AMD for the price/performance ratio, but fragmenting the industry is never good. It’s like how Android is screwed now. That’s a perfect example as to what Nvidia is doing to the GPU industry.
konfab
August 4, 2015 at 16:48
Erm?
How is Android screwed? In 2014 they had over 1 Billion active users.
Sure, the people with their little 2.3 phones might not be able to play the latest games, but they can still do 80% of what an S6 can.
Ditto for their other versions. I don’t particularly feel that my 4.4 phone would be somehow better with 5.0.
It is similar to most operating systems, most have levelled out in terms of the amount of new features in each release.
onstrike112
August 4, 2015 at 19:22
It’s simple. Fragmentation of the entire ecosystem. A Samsung looks nothing like an LG or a Nexus. Not only that but carriers are making the problem worse. They block updates because they have to “skin” the OS. When people do get an update, another one should have already shipped, but they may or may not get the next one anyways. That’s kind of what Nvidia is doing to PC gaming with Gameworks.
konfab
August 4, 2015 at 19:53
The fragmentation is mainly cosmetic. There really isn’t much difference to the end user after a certain point ( around ice cream sandwich).
Most popular apps are fully compatible with a wide spectrum of OSs.
I don’t think the customisation of the OS is such a bad thing if it is done nicely. For example, touchwiz, as much as people hate it allows a tablet like the Note 2 to be much more functional than stock android.
konfab
August 4, 2015 at 19:53
The fragmentation is mainly cosmetic. There really isn’t much difference to the end user after a certain point ( around ice cream sandwich).
Most popular apps are fully compatible with a wide spectrum of OSs.
I don’t think the customisation of the OS is such a bad thing if it is done nicely. For example, touchwiz, as much as people hate it allows a tablet like the Note 2 to be much more functional than stock android.
onstrike112
August 4, 2015 at 21:58
That’s where you’re wrong. It means that updates never get to the end user.
onstrike112
August 4, 2015 at 21:58
That’s where you’re wrong. It means that updates never get to the end user.
onstrike112
August 4, 2015 at 21:58
That’s where you’re wrong. It means that updates never get to the end user.
konfab
August 4, 2015 at 19:53
The fragmentation is mainly cosmetic. There really isn’t much difference to the end user after a certain point ( around ice cream sandwich).
Most popular apps are fully compatible with a wide spectrum of OSs.
I don’t think the customisation of the OS is such a bad thing if it is done nicely. For example, touchwiz, as much as people hate it allows a tablet like the Note 2 to be much more functional than stock android.
konfab
August 4, 2015 at 19:53
The fragmentation is mainly cosmetic. There really isn’t much difference to the end user after a certain point ( around ice cream sandwich).
Most popular apps are fully compatible with a wide spectrum of OSs.
I don’t think the customisation of the OS is such a bad thing if it is done nicely. For example, touchwiz, as much as people hate it allows a tablet like the Note 2 to be much more functional than stock android.
RustedFaith
August 7, 2015 at 15:30
Android isnt screwed they are using opengl ? Unless I am missing something ?
onstrike112
August 7, 2015 at 16:22
You missed the entire point. So nice reading comprehension.
onstrike112
August 4, 2015 at 08:56
Exactly what I’ve been saying about the GPU “battle” the entire time. I prefer AMD for the price/performance ratio, but fragmenting the industry is never good. It’s like how Android is screwed now. That’s a perfect example as to what Nvidia is doing to the GPU industry.
onstrike112
August 4, 2015 at 08:56
Exactly what I’ve been saying about the GPU “battle” the entire time. I prefer AMD for the price/performance ratio, but fragmenting the industry is never good. It’s like how Android is screwed now. That’s a perfect example as to what Nvidia is doing to the GPU industry.
onstrike112
August 4, 2015 at 08:56
Exactly what I’ve been saying about the GPU “battle” the entire time. I prefer AMD for the price/performance ratio, but fragmenting the industry is never good. It’s like how Android is screwed now. That’s a perfect example as to what Nvidia is doing to the GPU industry.
onstrike112
August 4, 2015 at 08:56
Exactly what I’ve been saying about the GPU “battle” the entire time. I prefer AMD for the price/performance ratio, but fragmenting the industry is never good. It’s like how Android is screwed now. That’s a perfect example as to what Nvidia is doing to the GPU industry.
onstrike112
August 4, 2015 at 08:56
Exactly what I’ve been saying about the GPU “battle” the entire time. I prefer AMD for the price/performance ratio, but fragmenting the industry is never good. It’s like how Android is screwed now. That’s a perfect example as to what Nvidia is doing to the GPU industry.
onstrike112
August 4, 2015 at 08:56
Exactly what I’ve been saying about the GPU “battle” the entire time. I prefer AMD for the price/performance ratio, but fragmenting the industry is never good. It’s like how Android is screwed now. That’s a perfect example as to what Nvidia is doing to the GPU industry.
Nikorasu95
August 7, 2015 at 06:24
No point reasoning with a fool, right?
RustedFaith
August 3, 2015 at 16:16
Wowy you are quite mentally challenged are you ?
You just dont get it the conversation is not about your fanboy opinion about GPU vendors its about a company willingly fragmenting the industry.
Let me spell out why I quoted my card because you clearly have trouble thinking, its because the first reply your mentally challenged brain would have latched on was that I am probably a AMD fanboy.
No one is talking about AMD vs Nvidia or Mantle vs Directx vs Directx 12, its about a corporate fragmenting the market on purpose for profit margins. (I hope the second time I say it it might sink in but I wont hold my breath).
Its not just AMD complaining its a big part of the market that sees this but then again doing some research is below you oh mighty Nvidia fanboy …
But hey whatever floats your boat, go ahead attach yourself to a corporate brand if your self worth is so low ….
#Clueless
RustedFaith
August 3, 2015 at 16:16
Wowy you are quite mentally challenged are you ?
You just dont get it the conversation is not about your fanboy opinion about GPU vendors its about a company willingly fragmenting the industry.
Let me spell out why I quoted my card because you clearly have trouble thinking, its because the first reply your mentally challenged brain would have latched on was that I am probably a AMD fanboy.
No one is talking about AMD vs Nvidia or Mantle vs Directx vs Directx 12, its about a corporate fragmenting the market on purpose for profit margins. (I hope the second time I say it it might sink in but I wont hold my breath).
Its not just AMD complaining its a big part of the market that sees this but then again doing some research is below you oh mighty Nvidia fanboy …
But hey whatever floats your boat, go ahead attach yourself to a corporate brand if your self worth is so low ….
#Clueless
RustedFaith
August 3, 2015 at 16:16
Wowy you are quite mentally challenged are you ?
You just dont get it the conversation is not about your fanboy opinion about GPU vendors its about a company willingly fragmenting the industry.
Let me spell out why I quoted my card because you clearly have trouble thinking, its because the first reply your mentally challenged brain would have latched on was that I am probably a AMD fanboy.
No one is talking about AMD vs Nvidia or Mantle vs Directx vs Directx 12, its about a corporate fragmenting the market on purpose for profit margins. (I hope the second time I say it it might sink in but I wont hold my breath).
Its not just AMD complaining its a big part of the market that sees this but then again doing some research is below you oh mighty Nvidia fanboy …
But hey whatever floats your boat, go ahead attach yourself to a corporate brand if your self worth is so low ….
#Clueless
oomjan
August 3, 2015 at 15:41
I agree. Most games that’s been shit performance wise has been gameworks title.
oomjan
August 3, 2015 at 15:41
I agree. Most games that’s been shit performance wise has been gameworks title.
IsaacLHawk
August 3, 2015 at 16:21
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IsaacLHawk
August 3, 2015 at 16:21
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IsaacLHawk
August 3, 2015 at 16:21
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IsaacLHawk
August 3, 2015 at 16:21
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oomjan
August 3, 2015 at 15:41
I agree. Most games that’s been shit performance wise has been gameworks title.
oomjan
August 3, 2015 at 15:41
I agree. Most games that’s been shit performance wise has been gameworks title.
oomjan
August 3, 2015 at 15:41
I agree. Most games that’s been shit performance wise has been gameworks title.
oomjan
August 3, 2015 at 15:41
I agree. Most games that’s been shit performance wise has been gameworks title.
Bagel
August 5, 2015 at 11:11
“and you buddy are exacly whats wrong with the gaming industry.”
LMAO. can you calm the fuck down?
TIL: A users opinion is a direct indication to what is wrong with the industry.
Just calm the fuck down.
Cheesus Crust.
RustedFaith
August 7, 2015 at 15:27
TIL: A users opinion is a direct indication to what is wrong with the industry.
Yup the industry is full of fanboys that blindly defend the said brand regardless of the truth. He is a good example of the fact… do you understand now ?
Comparing PS4 and Xbone to PC saying its just as fast blah blah blah … 30fps is more cinimatic, resolution is just a number and doesnt matter…. etc. and the fanboys live and breathe what they get told just like our Nvidia fanboy.
Yeh the industry is perfectly fine gamworks games runs shit on nvidia cards and barely runs on AMD. Yah no everything is rainbows and butterflies.
The fragmentation already started … but I guess lets leave it untill its totally fucked before we do anything just like South Africa hey …
N7Paladin
August 13, 2015 at 04:22
Don’t forget AC:Black Flag, you turn phyzx on and it’s game over. We first got hint of this in Borderlands 2 but we were all too dumb to notice this shit. Gameworks is GARBAGE. And if anything is anti-gamer. All these idiots fooling themselves because they are fanboys. I have 2 Nvidia Cards GTX 690 and a Titan X and no matter what you use you will feel the performance hit on Gameworks enabled titles.
Greylingad[CNFRMD]
August 3, 2015 at 14:00
Oomph….That header…
Greylingad[CNFRMD]
August 3, 2015 at 14:12
I honestly think that nvidia hardware is currently superior to AMD, having some “gaming scientist” (whatever that’s supposed to mean) complain about the competitions tools sounds like a complete PR mess… it makes them sound like a bunch of crybabies, and that makes me sad…If they man up and do something spectacular people will start jumping the green ship….
Kromas,powered by windows 10.
August 3, 2015 at 14:56
The hardware is superior. The software is a bloated piece of crap. At this point I would rather buy AMD than Nvidia just because I prefer not to support gameworks even though I know the Titan X beats the R9 Fury.
Greylingad[CNFRMD]
August 3, 2015 at 15:10
Exactly, I also don’t buy nVidia cards for the gameworks side of things, for all I care they can leave it… I bought my 970 because it’s a good card, if AMD had something as good/comparable, I would have gone with that option, but then also looking at their history of not so regular driver updates made me also decide on the green team… It all comes down to good products with good service, if either of those are lacking you’re going to lose customers…
James Anderton
August 3, 2015 at 15:25
Over the many years that I’ve read developer interviews where they delve into the more technical aspects, time and again they’ve said that they found it easier to communicate with Nvidia than AMD (especially during development), which is perhaps why we see drivers get updated so quickly.
Greylingad[CNFRMD]
August 3, 2015 at 17:27
Exactly, as an example, have a look at the batman arkham knight pc release, the nvidia engineers are quite literally sitting there helping the devs out, same happened with project cars, according to project cars though the and guys were close to non existent…
Greylingad[CNFRMD]
August 3, 2015 at 17:27
Exactly, as an example, have a look at the batman arkham knight pc release, the nvidia engineers are quite literally sitting there helping the devs out, same happened with project cars, according to project cars though the and guys were close to non existent…
onstrike112
August 4, 2015 at 19:25
Yet we see how that worked out for every gamer who tried to play on both AMD cards and Nvidia’s older cards.
Greylingad[CNFRMD]
August 5, 2015 at 09:09
Yep, according to nVidia, optimisation means 60fps…On a quad sli Titan X system at 1080p…
onstrike112
August 5, 2015 at 09:14
They don’t care about advancing the industry though. They only care about how much money they can get from each consumer. If they can squeeze $400 more from a user, why not, according to them. Gameworks is proof of that. That’s why I’m an AMD user. If AMD had good CPUs compared to Intels, I’d have an FX CPU, too.
Greylingad[CNFRMD]
August 3, 2015 at 17:27
Exactly, as an example, have a look at the batman arkham knight pc release, the nvidia engineers are quite literally sitting there helping the devs out, same happened with project cars, according to project cars though the and guys were close to non existent…
Greylingad[CNFRMD]
August 3, 2015 at 17:27
Exactly, as an example, have a look at the batman arkham knight pc release, the nvidia engineers are quite literally sitting there helping the devs out, same happened with project cars, according to project cars though the and guys were close to non existent…
Greylingad[CNFRMD]
August 3, 2015 at 17:27
Exactly, as an example, have a look at the batman arkham knight pc release, the nvidia engineers are quite literally sitting there helping the devs out, same happened with project cars, according to project cars though the and guys were close to non existent…
Greylingad[CNFRMD]
August 3, 2015 at 17:27
Exactly, as an example, have a look at the batman arkham knight pc release, the nvidia engineers are quite literally sitting there helping the devs out, same happened with project cars, according to project cars though the and guys were close to non existent…
Greylingad[CNFRMD]
August 3, 2015 at 17:27
Exactly, as an example, have a look at the batman arkham knight pc release, the nvidia engineers are quite literally sitting there helping the devs out, same happened with project cars, according to project cars though the and guys were close to non existent…
Kromas,powered by windows 10.
August 3, 2015 at 15:26
The reason I switched to AMD was because of the 5 drivers a day at one stage. And then If I wanted to play one game I had to revert back to an older set of drivers etc etc. I prefer AMD drivers because they work and if they don’t you can always just download the Beta Drivers.
Greylingad[CNFRMD]
August 3, 2015 at 17:32
That’s is true, nvidia updates their drivers quite regularly, it wouldn’t be a problem if it was a quick 20 or 30 MB of data, but having to download 300 MB every single time is a little ridiculous,but then again if it only happens with major releases, it’s not that bad… I’ve had many an amg card where you always had to install a version of. Net or something before the blooming thing would even consider installing, and bloody hell, don’t upgrade to a new card with the old drivers anywhere close to your system… You will have a really bad time…
N7Paladin
August 13, 2015 at 04:24
Well said, Gameworks is designed to fuq over both AMD. It worked so well that it even gimps Nvidia’s own Hardware.
Kromas,powered by windows 10.
August 3, 2015 at 14:56
The hardware is superior. The software is a bloated piece of crap. At this point I would rather buy AMD than Nvidia just because I prefer not to support gameworks even though I know the Titan X beats the R9 Fury.
Kromas,powered by windows 10.
August 3, 2015 at 14:56
The hardware is superior. The software is a bloated piece of crap. At this point I would rather buy AMD than Nvidia just because I prefer not to support gameworks even though I know the Titan X beats the R9 Fury.
Kromas,powered by windows 10.
August 3, 2015 at 14:56
The hardware is superior. The software is a bloated piece of crap. At this point I would rather buy AMD than Nvidia just because I prefer not to support gameworks even though I know the Titan X beats the R9 Fury.
Kromas,powered by windows 10.
August 3, 2015 at 14:56
The hardware is superior. The software is a bloated piece of crap. At this point I would rather buy AMD than Nvidia just because I prefer not to support gameworks even though I know the Titan X beats the R9 Fury.
Kromas,powered by windows 10.
August 3, 2015 at 14:56
The hardware is superior. The software is a bloated piece of crap. At this point I would rather buy AMD than Nvidia just because I prefer not to support gameworks even though I know the Titan X beats the R9 Fury.
Kromas,powered by windows 10.
August 3, 2015 at 14:56
The hardware is superior. The software is a bloated piece of crap. At this point I would rather buy AMD than Nvidia just because I prefer not to support gameworks even though I know the Titan X beats the R9 Fury.
Kromas,powered by windows 10.
August 3, 2015 at 14:56
The hardware is superior. The software is a bloated piece of crap. At this point I would rather buy AMD than Nvidia just because I prefer not to support gameworks even though I know the Titan X beats the R9 Fury.
Kromas,powered by windows 10.
August 3, 2015 at 14:56
The hardware is superior. The software is a bloated piece of crap. At this point I would rather buy AMD than Nvidia just because I prefer not to support gameworks even though I know the Titan X beats the R9 Fury.
Kromas,powered by windows 10.
August 3, 2015 at 14:56
The hardware is superior. The software is a bloated piece of crap. At this point I would rather buy AMD than Nvidia just because I prefer not to support gameworks even though I know the Titan X beats the R9 Fury.
Greylingad[CNFRMD]
August 3, 2015 at 14:12
I honestly think that nvidia hardware is currently superior to AMD, having some “gaming scientist” (whatever that’s supposed to mean) complain about the competitions tools sounds like a complete PR mess… it makes them sound like a bunch of crybabies, and that makes me sad…If they man up and do something spectacular people will start jumping the green ship….
Greylingad[CNFRMD]
August 3, 2015 at 14:12
I honestly think that nvidia hardware is currently superior to AMD, having some “gaming scientist” (whatever that’s supposed to mean) complain about the competitions tools sounds like a complete PR mess… it makes them sound like a bunch of crybabies, and that makes me sad…If they man up and do something spectacular people will start jumping the green ship….
Greylingad[CNFRMD]
August 3, 2015 at 14:12
I honestly think that nvidia hardware is currently superior to AMD, having some “gaming scientist” (whatever that’s supposed to mean) complain about the competitions tools sounds like a complete PR mess… it makes them sound like a bunch of crybabies, and that makes me sad…If they man up and do something spectacular people will start jumping the green ship….
Greylingad[CNFRMD]
August 3, 2015 at 14:12
I honestly think that nvidia hardware is currently superior to AMD, having some “gaming scientist” (whatever that’s supposed to mean) complain about the competitions tools sounds like a complete PR mess… it makes them sound like a bunch of crybabies, and that makes me sad…If they man up and do something spectacular people will start jumping the green ship….
Greylingad[CNFRMD]
August 3, 2015 at 14:12
I honestly think that nvidia hardware is currently superior to AMD, having some “gaming scientist” (whatever that’s supposed to mean) complain about the competitions tools sounds like a complete PR mess… it makes them sound like a bunch of crybabies, and that makes me sad…If they man up and do something spectacular people will start jumping the green ship….
Greylingad[CNFRMD]
August 3, 2015 at 14:12
I honestly think that nvidia hardware is currently superior to AMD, having some “gaming scientist” (whatever that’s supposed to mean) complain about the competitions tools sounds like a complete PR mess… it makes them sound like a bunch of crybabies, and that makes me sad…If they man up and do something spectacular people will start jumping the green ship….
Greylingad[CNFRMD]
August 3, 2015 at 14:12
I honestly think that nvidia hardware is currently superior to AMD, having some “gaming scientist” (whatever that’s supposed to mean) complain about the competitions tools sounds like a complete PR mess… it makes them sound like a bunch of crybabies, and that makes me sad…If they man up and do something spectacular people will start jumping the green ship….
Greylingad[CNFRMD]
August 3, 2015 at 14:12
I honestly think that nvidia hardware is currently superior to AMD, having some “gaming scientist” (whatever that’s supposed to mean) complain about the competitions tools sounds like a complete PR mess… it makes them sound like a bunch of crybabies, and that makes me sad…If they man up and do something spectacular people will start jumping the green ship….
Greylingad[CNFRMD]
August 3, 2015 at 14:12
I honestly think that nvidia hardware is currently superior to AMD, having some “gaming scientist” (whatever that’s supposed to mean) complain about the competitions tools sounds like a complete PR mess… it makes them sound like a bunch of crybabies, and that makes me sad…If they man up and do something spectacular people will start jumping the green ship….
Greylingad[CNFRMD]
August 3, 2015 at 14:12
I honestly think that nvidia hardware is currently superior to AMD, having some “gaming scientist” (whatever that’s supposed to mean) complain about the competitions tools sounds like a complete PR mess… it makes them sound like a bunch of crybabies, and that makes me sad…If they man up and do something spectacular people will start jumping the green ship….
Greylingad[CNFRMD]
August 3, 2015 at 14:12
I honestly think that nvidia hardware is currently superior to AMD, having some “gaming scientist” (whatever that’s supposed to mean) complain about the competitions tools sounds like a complete PR mess… it makes them sound like a bunch of crybabies, and that makes me sad…If they man up and do something spectacular people will start jumping the green ship….
Greylingad[CNFRMD]
August 3, 2015 at 14:12
I honestly think that nvidia hardware is currently superior to AMD, having some “gaming scientist” (whatever that’s supposed to mean) complain about the competitions tools sounds like a complete PR mess… it makes them sound like a bunch of crybabies, and that makes me sad…If they man up and do something spectacular people will start jumping the green ship….
Greylingad[CNFRMD]
August 3, 2015 at 14:12
I honestly think that nvidia hardware is currently superior to AMD, having some “gaming scientist” (whatever that’s supposed to mean) complain about the competitions tools sounds like a complete PR mess… it makes them sound like a bunch of crybabies, and that makes me sad…If they man up and do something spectacular people will start jumping the green ship….
Nikola
August 3, 2015 at 14:18
Boo hoo cry much hahaha!
Nikola
August 3, 2015 at 14:18
Boo hoo cry much hahaha!
Nikola
August 3, 2015 at 14:18
Boo hoo cry much hahaha!
Nikola
August 3, 2015 at 14:18
Boo hoo cry much hahaha!
Nikola
August 3, 2015 at 14:18
Boo hoo cry much hahaha!
Nikola
August 3, 2015 at 14:18
Boo hoo cry much hahaha!
HairyEwok
August 3, 2015 at 14:27
I agree with Richard to a point. Yes it would be great for gaming if Nvidia give out the source code of GameWorks but, why not go and make something to compete against GameWorks. Make another SDK that rivals GameWorks to such a point that Nvidia is forced to share the source code.
What I feel like that’s going on at the moment is that AMD wants the source code from Nvidia so they can take that and copy paste it to make their own SDK, I’m most probably wrong and hope I am wrong but why moan about something when you don’t do something about it.
AMD competes well against Nvidia with it’s bang for buck, if having a bigger electricity bill (and by bigger i mean R1000+ per year) isn’t a problem for you then AMD is the best choice. Nvidia is going the power saving and still have a bang but all that has a premium price to it. In the end I wish AMD would get it together and finally give Nvidia something to worry about since that will help balance the prices on the market.
Speely
August 4, 2015 at 21:04
Basically, AMD can’t afford to make its own closed-ecosystem Gameworks. It can’t. Not only does it not have the money for the development of such a thing, but it doesn’t have nearly enough market share to support it. AMD can’t create a stack of blackbox plug-ins like GW because developers aren’t likely to use them – when 80% of their target audience is using Nvidia cards, they’re going to use GW.
AMD’s only hope is to build and develop open-source standards and utilities and libraries and get them the heck out there onto the market and hope that they catch on. And sometimes they succeed – remember TressFX? Remember how pissed off Nvidia (and their fans) got when Tomb Raider came out and TressFX ran crappy on Nvidia cards? Remember the fanboy uproar? But it was barely a few days before Nvidia had a driver update and then suddenly TressFX ran BETTER on Nvidia cards – they got their hands on the source code (because it’s open and free) and optimized their drivers to run it.
AMD can’t do that, so when HairWorks (which is really just “tessellate the ever-loving hell out of it” written into code) cripples AMD cards (and by a waaaaaay wider margin than would be logical, suggesting that it was intentional) there’s very, very little AMD can do about it other than to put a cap on the tessellation in that particular game profile. I have no doubt if AMD were able to look at the source code for HairWorks, they’d be able to build a driver update that optimizes for it and at least makes it look decent and run well.
I don’t think they want the source code so they can copy-paste it and make their own version of GameWorks. I think they just want the source code so they can find a way to make the stuff run better on their cards. Which is 100% contrary to what Nvidia wants (if AMD cards can run GameWorks games well, more people will buy AMD cards and therefore less people will buy Nvidia cards) so it’s absolutely in Nvidia’s best interest to keep that stuff on lockdown.
And as I said, it’s the exact opposite for AMD. It’s in their best interest to make stuff as open as possible in the hopes that more dev’s will use it, so more people will buy AMD cards. It’s, quite literally, the best they can do, especially since the alternative would be giving up.
Speely
August 4, 2015 at 21:04
Basically, AMD can’t afford to make its own closed-ecosystem Gameworks. It can’t. Not only does it not have the money for the development of such a thing, but it doesn’t have nearly enough market share to support it. AMD can’t create a stack of blackbox plug-ins like GW because developers aren’t likely to use them – when 80% of their target audience is using Nvidia cards, they’re going to use GW.
AMD’s only hope is to build and develop open-source standards and utilities and libraries and get them the heck out there onto the market and hope that they catch on. And sometimes they succeed – remember TressFX? Remember how pissed off Nvidia (and their fans) got when Tomb Raider came out and TressFX ran crappy on Nvidia cards? Remember the fanboy uproar? But it was barely a few days before Nvidia had a driver update and then suddenly TressFX ran BETTER on Nvidia cards – they got their hands on the source code (because it’s open and free) and optimized their drivers to run it.
AMD can’t do that, so when HairWorks (which is really just “tessellate the ever-loving hell out of it” written into code) cripples AMD cards (and by a waaaaaay wider margin than would be logical, suggesting that it was intentional) there’s very, very little AMD can do about it other than to put a cap on the tessellation in that particular game profile. I have no doubt if AMD were able to look at the source code for HairWorks, they’d be able to build a driver update that optimizes for it and at least makes it look decent and run well.
I don’t think they want the source code so they can copy-paste it and make their own version of GameWorks. I think they just want the source code so they can find a way to make the stuff run better on their cards. Which is 100% contrary to what Nvidia wants (if AMD cards can run GameWorks games well, more people will buy AMD cards and therefore less people will buy Nvidia cards) so it’s absolutely in Nvidia’s best interest to keep that stuff on lockdown.
And as I said, it’s the exact opposite for AMD. It’s in their best interest to make stuff as open as possible in the hopes that more dev’s will use it, so more people will buy AMD cards. It’s, quite literally, the best they can do, especially since the alternative would be giving up.
Magius1976
August 3, 2015 at 17:26
So if what he is saying is true, nVidia gimping their own hardware as well as AMDs, then why doesn’t he run the tests through his own labs, and then report them to the relevant consumer and trade commissions? What he is describing is a form of anti-competitive behaviour designed to create or reinforce a monopoly. Illegal in most countries so report it and let the regulators sort it out.
Magius1976
August 3, 2015 at 17:26
So if what he is saying is true, nVidia gimping their own hardware as well as AMDs, then why doesn’t he run the tests through his own labs, and then report them to the relevant consumer and trade commissions? What he is describing is a form of anti-competitive behaviour designed to create or reinforce a monopoly. Illegal in most countries so report it and let the regulators sort it out.
Magius1976
August 3, 2015 at 17:26
So if what he is saying is true, nVidia gimping their own hardware as well as AMDs, then why doesn’t he run the tests through his own labs, and then report them to the relevant consumer and trade commissions? What he is describing is a form of anti-competitive behaviour designed to create or reinforce a monopoly. Illegal in most countries so report it and let the regulators sort it out.
Magius1976
August 3, 2015 at 17:26
So if what he is saying is true, nVidia gimping their own hardware as well as AMDs, then why doesn’t he run the tests through his own labs, and then report them to the relevant consumer and trade commissions? What he is describing is a form of anti-competitive behaviour designed to create or reinforce a monopoly. Illegal in most countries so report it and let the regulators sort it out.
Magius1976
August 3, 2015 at 17:26
So if what he is saying is true, nVidia gimping their own hardware as well as AMDs, then why doesn’t he run the tests through his own labs, and then report them to the relevant consumer and trade commissions? What he is describing is a form of anti-competitive behaviour designed to create or reinforce a monopoly. Illegal in most countries so report it and let the regulators sort it out.
Magius1976
August 3, 2015 at 17:26
So if what he is saying is true, nVidia gimping their own hardware as well as AMDs, then why doesn’t he run the tests through his own labs, and then report them to the relevant consumer and trade commissions? What he is describing is a form of anti-competitive behaviour designed to create or reinforce a monopoly. Illegal in most countries so report it and let the regulators sort it out.
Magius1976
August 3, 2015 at 17:26
So if what he is saying is true, nVidia gimping their own hardware as well as AMDs, then why doesn’t he run the tests through his own labs, and then report them to the relevant consumer and trade commissions? What he is describing is a form of anti-competitive behaviour designed to create or reinforce a monopoly. Illegal in most countries so report it and let the regulators sort it out.
Christopher
August 4, 2015 at 02:08
This man is 100 percent correct. Proprietary solutions like GameWorks are bad for the gaming industry.
However, with that said, AMD has dug its own grave with higher power cards that don’t perform as well as Nvidia, in addition to offering inferior game bundles. There’s very little that’s attractive about purchasing an AMD card even when excluding GameWorks.
konfab
August 4, 2015 at 16:27
DX 12 is just as proprietary as GameWorks, yet it is quite good for the industry.
konfab
August 4, 2015 at 16:27
DX 12 is just as proprietary as GameWorks, yet it is quite good for the industry.
konfab
August 4, 2015 at 16:27
DX 12 is just as proprietary as GameWorks, yet it is quite good for the industry.
konfab
August 4, 2015 at 16:27
DX 12 is just as proprietary as GameWorks, yet it is quite good for the industry.
konfab
August 4, 2015 at 16:27
DX 12 is just as proprietary as GameWorks, yet it is quite good for the industry.
konfab
August 4, 2015 at 16:27
DX 12 is just as proprietary as GameWorks, yet it is quite good for the industry.
onstrike112
August 4, 2015 at 19:23
That’s why they should be using OpenGL.
konfab
August 5, 2015 at 06:12
Why should they? If the developers using DX12 find it makes their games easier to develop, who are we to impose a different system?
onstrike112
August 5, 2015 at 06:30
Why should they use a crappy closed source solution that’s a copy of AMD Mantle? Not only did AMD actually give permission to the developers of OpenGL, it’s cross platform. What’s there not to like about OpenGL?
Christopher
August 4, 2015 at 23:46
That depends on your point of view. If I’m developing a game with DX12 I’m locked into Windows.
It’s not such a big deal since the overwhelming majority of PC gaming occurs on Windows, but it’s not so great from the point of view of a Mac or Linux user.
AMD and Nvidia also have equal access to the DX12 API, so I’d argue that the two situations aren’t the same.
Christopher
August 4, 2015 at 02:08
This man is 100 percent correct. Proprietary solutions like GameWorks are bad for the gaming industry.
However, with that said, AMD has dug its own grave with higher power cards that don’t perform as well as Nvidia, in addition to offering inferior game bundles. There’s very little that’s attractive about purchasing an AMD card even when excluding GameWorks.
David Weatherhead
August 4, 2015 at 07:51
So, AMD’s initiatives to capture the developer and consumer markets with better integration and performance were a bit poor, and now they are upset over nVidia’s success.
I agree that having systems that gives the best to the consumer base is important, and that GameWorks is not fulfilling that role… but this does sound a bit like AMD feeling a little hurt in the posterior.
Disclaimer: I do prefer nVidia, but because my personal experience with them has been great, particularly because of their driver support.
Mast3r Race
August 4, 2015 at 13:07
People make such a big deal out of Drivers. I own a Titan X and have been testing all the current games before and after the new driver releases. Truth? There is little to no difference at all between the drivers in performance 95% of the time. AMD will make a huge come back with their next generation 16nm cards. They will have a 16nm HBM2 card out 4-6 months before NVIDIA releases Pascal because AMD has priority over HBM2. If they wanted they could even stall NVIDIA longer. Like I said, I own a Titan X but am not some stupid fag boy for any particular team like most of you guys. I like competition and I want AMD to succeed. I’m actually looking forward to AMD releasing their nextgen with awesome performance and watching all the fagboys cry.
David Weatherhead
August 4, 2015 at 13:24
Perhaps try testing with a more nominal card for better comparative results than a Titan X, because I unfortunately haven’t had the luxury of earning too much money and buying Titan Xs, instead I have had low to mid upper range cards, and my experience with drivers has meant improved performance. Not that this isn’t the case with AMD, this has just been my experience as someone with generally mid-range parts.
Also, please don’t fish for things that I have not said…
I want AMD to succeed, I want nVidia to succeed, I want a better industry and a better consumer experience…
My *personal* choice of vendor, which is based off of my prior experience with both cards, does not make me a fag boy (fanboy?) unless I unequivocally choose them just because, ya know, “reasons” and put my fingers in my ears and shout “La la la.” You also seem to have directed your rant at me, which I sincerely hope is a mistake, considering I have not voiced myself as either a “nVidiot” or “GayMD.” The latter of which comes across as slightly homophobic.
In short, I want AMD to succeed and AMD should prove themselves by what they do, and not what they say about other companies.
David Weatherhead
August 4, 2015 at 13:24
Perhaps try testing with a more nominal card for better comparative results than a Titan X, because I unfortunately haven’t had the luxury of earning too much money and buying Titan Xs, instead I have had low to mid upper range cards, and my experience with drivers has meant improved performance. Not that this isn’t the case with AMD, this has just been my experience as someone with generally mid-range parts.
Also, please don’t fish for things that I have not said…
I want AMD to succeed, I want nVidia to succeed, I want a better industry and a better consumer experience…
My *personal* choice of vendor, which is based off of my prior experience with both cards, does not make me a fag boy (fanboy?) unless I unequivocally choose them just because, ya know, “reasons” and put my fingers in my ears and shout “La la la.” You also seem to have directed your rant at me, which I sincerely hope is a mistake, considering I have not voiced myself as either a “nVidiot” or “GayMD.” The latter of which comes across as slightly homophobic.
In short, I want AMD to succeed and AMD should prove themselves by what they do, and not what they say about other companies.
David Weatherhead
August 4, 2015 at 13:24
Perhaps try testing with a more nominal card for better comparative results than a Titan X, because I unfortunately haven’t had the luxury of earning too much money and buying Titan Xs, instead I have had low to mid upper range cards, and my experience with drivers has meant improved performance. Not that this isn’t the case with AMD, this has just been my experience as someone with generally mid-range parts.
Also, please don’t fish for things that I have not said…
I want AMD to succeed, I want nVidia to succeed, I want a better industry and a better consumer experience…
My *personal* choice of vendor, which is based off of my prior experience with both cards, does not make me a fag boy (fanboy?) unless I unequivocally choose them just because, ya know, “reasons” and put my fingers in my ears and shout “La la la.” You also seem to have directed your rant at me, which I sincerely hope is a mistake, considering I have not voiced myself as either a “nVidiot” or “GayMD.” The latter of which comes across as slightly homophobic.
In short, I want AMD to succeed and AMD should prove themselves by what they do, and not what they say about other companies.
David Weatherhead
August 4, 2015 at 13:24
Perhaps try testing with a more nominal card for better comparative results than a Titan X, because I unfortunately haven’t had the luxury of earning too much money and buying Titan Xs, instead I have had low to mid upper range cards, and my experience with drivers has meant improved performance. Not that this isn’t the case with AMD, this has just been my experience as someone with generally mid-range parts.
Also, please don’t fish for things that I have not said…
I want AMD to succeed, I want nVidia to succeed, I want a better industry and a better consumer experience…
My *personal* choice of vendor, which is based off of my prior experience with both cards, does not make me a fag boy (fanboy?) unless I unequivocally choose them just because, ya know, “reasons” and put my fingers in my ears and shout “La la la.” You also seem to have directed your rant at me, which I sincerely hope is a mistake, considering I have not voiced myself as either a “nVidiot” or “GayMD.” The latter of which comes across as slightly homophobic.
In short, I want AMD to succeed and AMD should prove themselves by what they do, and not what they say about other companies.
David Weatherhead
August 4, 2015 at 13:24
Perhaps try testing with a more nominal card for better comparative results than a Titan X, because I unfortunately haven’t had the luxury of earning too much money and buying Titan Xs, instead I have had low to mid upper range cards, and my experience with drivers has meant improved performance. Not that this isn’t the case with AMD, this has just been my experience as someone with generally mid-range parts.
Also, please don’t fish for things that I have not said…
I want AMD to succeed, I want nVidia to succeed, I want a better industry and a better consumer experience…
My *personal* choice of vendor, which is based off of my prior experience with both cards, does not make me a fag boy (fanboy?) unless I unequivocally choose them just because, ya know, “reasons” and put my fingers in my ears and shout “La la la.” You also seem to have directed your rant at me, which I sincerely hope is a mistake, considering I have not voiced myself as either a “nVidiot” or “GayMD.” The latter of which comes across as slightly homophobic.
In short, I want AMD to succeed and AMD should prove themselves by what they do, and not what they say about other companies.
David Weatherhead
August 4, 2015 at 13:24
Perhaps try testing with a more nominal card for better comparative results than a Titan X, because I unfortunately haven’t had the luxury of earning too much money and buying Titan Xs, instead I have had low to mid upper range cards, and my experience with drivers has meant improved performance. Not that this isn’t the case with AMD, this has just been my experience as someone with generally mid-range parts.
Also, please don’t fish for things that I have not said…
I want AMD to succeed, I want nVidia to succeed, I want a better industry and a better consumer experience…
My *personal* choice of vendor, which is based off of my prior experience with both cards, does not make me a fag boy (fanboy?) unless I unequivocally choose them just because, ya know, “reasons” and put my fingers in my ears and shout “La la la.” You also seem to have directed your rant at me, which I sincerely hope is a mistake, considering I have not voiced myself as either a “nVidiot” or “GayMD.” The latter of which comes across as slightly homophobic.
In short, I want AMD to succeed and AMD should prove themselves by what they do, and not what they say about other companies.
David Weatherhead
August 4, 2015 at 13:24
Perhaps try testing with a more nominal card for better comparative results than a Titan X, because I unfortunately haven’t had the luxury of earning too much money and buying Titan Xs, instead I have had low to mid upper range cards, and my experience with drivers has meant improved performance. Not that this isn’t the case with AMD, this has just been my experience as someone with generally mid-range parts.
Also, please don’t fish for things that I have not said…
I want AMD to succeed, I want nVidia to succeed, I want a better industry and a better consumer experience…
My *personal* choice of vendor, which is based off of my prior experience with both cards, does not make me a fag boy (fanboy?) unless I unequivocally choose them just because, ya know, “reasons” and put my fingers in my ears and shout “La la la.” You also seem to have directed your rant at me, which I sincerely hope is a mistake, considering I have not voiced myself as either a “nVidiot” or “GayMD.” The latter of which comes across as slightly homophobic.
In short, I want AMD to succeed and AMD should prove themselves by what they do, and not what they say about other companies.
James
August 4, 2015 at 16:53
I use a relatively high end Nvidia GPU setup – 2x GTX 770, and I’m always hesitant when I see GameWorks effects. In the back of my mind I tend to assume that I will be playing with it off, or wait until patches are released to fix performance. This has been happening since PhysX became popular…
Please change your ways Nvidia. Stop making it proprietary. AMD makes most of their software technologies open source and they’re poor as f*ck! Its not like they’ll take back the market anyway.
konfab
August 5, 2015 at 06:14
I think they make it open source because they are poor :^)
Now they have hordes of basement dwellers to debug their drivers.
N7Paladin
August 13, 2015 at 04:18
I have a GTX Titan X and even I know Nvidia is full of shit with Gameworks, it runs like shit even on Nvidia Hardware. I think that the industry should stop using it all together. There is not one title that benefits from Gameworks. And anyone that doesn’t notice this is a blatant fanboy. The idea behind a companies own software is to enhance its hardware and ladies and gents, Gameworks does no such thing. The performance hit you get from Gameworks titles basically makes Nvidia GPU’s run like crap. Which doesn’t make sense to me at all. There should be a boycott of Gameworks. I don’t know how this is accepted and even allowed to happen.